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Allgemeine SS uniforms with 2 shoulder boards?

Article about: Hallo guys, I am waiting for pictures form a seller that has an Allgemeine SS uniform for sale. My problem with it: it has 2 shoulder boards. Were these even made ????? (ill post pictures as

  1. #41

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    I checked the RZM manufacturings-regulations (Herstellungsvorschriften
    der Reichszeugmeisterei
    ), specifically the later one from 1938. In section
    Dienstkleidung the black SS tunic was included.

    With page 17 it is said: ONE shoulder-strap at right. There were no exceptions
    mentioned. For the SS-VT no descriptions were included.

    Drawings from the white SS tunic for SS-leaders in "Der Uniformschneider"
    from May 1940 do show one shoulder-strap and mentions specifically
    at page 256: one shoulder-strap.
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

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  3. #42

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    I must just state before proceeding with this thread, that the other members who have posted here are the most knowledgeable and respected in this hobby. I on the other hand only know what I read and this is how you learn.

    It is clearly shown and understood the The Black Allgemein tunic/service wear only had one Shoulder board/strap. As stated by Andreas and others, there are exceptions ( as there usually is in this game). So I am not arguing that, just stating that the A-SS uniforms had 2 boards.

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	835266 this photo ( No 2)shows a board the left arm, but being a black and white picture, one can assume it is a grey tunic.Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #43

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    Quote by Wilhelm Saris View Post
    I checked the RZM manufacturings-regulations (Herstellungsvorschriften
    der Reichszeugmeisterei
    ), specifically the later one from 1938. In section
    Dienstkleidung the black SS tunic was included.

    With page 17 it is said: ONE shoulder-strap at right. There were no exceptions
    mentioned. For the SS-VT no descriptions were included.

    Drawings from the white SS tunic for SS-leaders in "Der Uniformschneider"
    from May 1940 do show one shoulder-strap and mentions specifically
    at page 256: one shoulder-strap.
    Thanks so much indeed for this kind addition. Is there anyway to see these 1938 regulations or specifications?

    The 1936 ones, which are widely reprinted, do not include the black SS uniform.

    Thanks for all your help.
    damit, basta.

  5. #44

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    Quote by d'alquen View Post
    Always a pleasure...
    We are indeed grateful for your decades of research and your time to share it all with us here.
    damit, basta.

  6. #45

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    For those of us who labor in these vineyards on a daily basis, the misuse of terms associated with the SS is legion. Many use the term "Allgemeine SS" to indicate a black uniform, which is how I read the first post.
    This kind of circular digital spiraling is a sad side effect of this medium, and I find it very tedious. What is of signal merit is the generosity of senior persons in our endeavor, who work very hard to share primary sources as found no where else and which so enrich the lives of beginners as well as persons who have been at this for decades.
    damit, basta.

  7. #46

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    Here a drawing for the black SS uniform from the 1938 manufacturing-regulations;
    and a short piece of the one shoulder-strap.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Note that with the description for the black SS great-coat from the same source
    also one shoulder-strap was mentioned.

    and with the words of d'Alquen : it is a pleasure to help. Pitily not all what we are
    looking for is in our possession!
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  8. #47

    Default

    To augment Wim's post here is a 1939 reference to the grey uniform worn by the Allgemeine-SS.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #48

    Default

    Thanks again for these wonderful primary sources. A real delight and pleasure. We owe Messrs. Saris and d'Alquen great thanks and respect!
    damit, basta.

  10. #49

    Default

    I like the order from post 47 pretty much. Thanks d'Alquen, as always
    appreciated!
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  11. #50

    Default

    Let me try to further de-muddle some of the confusion here.

    As for the subject of the whole thread:
    The initial post was an inquiry about the existence of "Allgemeine SS uniforms" with two shoulder boards. I had assumed this to refer to the black service dress of the SS, which is commonly called an "Allgemeine SS uniform" in collector circles, although - as Friedrich-Berhold, Bob Coleman and others have repeatedly (and unfortunately somewhat unsuccessfully) pointed out in a whole lot of threads - this is incorrect: Black and grey uniforms were worn by all branches of the SS, with the black uniform discontinued after the outbreak of the war for the full-time/armed elements.
    Surely, the thread starter - who had responded to my post within four minutes - would have pointed it out had this not been what he had meant. So, I suggest we finally leave the matter of field grey, earth grey and earth brown uniforms out of the thread.


    As for the German terminology:

    • Schulterklappen (lit. "shoulder flaps") normally refers to soft cloth shoulder boards. A typical example are enlisted ranks' shoulder boards on field blouses.
    • Schulterstücke or Achselstücke (lit. "shoulder pieces") normally refers to more rigid or semi-rigid shoulder boards. The terms are synonymous. (Nowadays, the term Achselstücke is somewhat archaic and not normally used anymore.) A typical example are all officers' shoulder boards.
    • Schulterschnüre (lit. "shoulder cords") refers to narrow shoulder boards composed of cords, with or without a cloth underlay. A typical example are those worn by the provisonal Reichswehr.
    • Schulterriemen (lit. "shoulder straps") refers to leather straps worn across the shoulder(s) and attached to the belt. A Schulterriemen can be a two-piece cross strap (of the "Sam Browne" style) or a three-piece "Y frame"; the latter is referred to as the doppelter Schulterriemen [double shoulder strap] in the document shown in post # 35 by d'Alquen.

    Colloquially, the terms "Schulterklappen" and "Schulterstücke" are sometimes used interchangeably; likewise the "Schulterschnüre" might sometimes be referred to as "Schulterstücke", but there is no such confusion when it comes to the term Schulterriemen, which has a clearly defined meaning and never refers to shoulder boards/epaulets of any kind.


    As for who wore two shoulder boards with the black uniform:
    Over in the other thread, d'Alquen had mentioned that they were authorised for the three groups using the three part shoulder straps: Cavalry, Medical and Musicians (members of Spielmannszüge and Musikzüge). Apparently, the practice was a short-lived one. So far, the documents found by Wim all refer to the wearing of one shoulder board with the black uniform.
    It is probably safe to say that the most widespread use of the double shoulder boards with the black uniform was among members of the Equestrian SS: Note that all photographs on this and the other thread showing the double boards (with the sole exception of the PB image) are of members of Reiter units. This includes the relaxed fellows in post # 42 (note the sleeve diamond), whose uniforms are definitely black.

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