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Allgemiene SS NCO Visor for Analysis

Article about: Some one should ask him, don't you think? Maybe the document there on the desk in the Prinz Albrechtstrasse is the Rosetta stone of "scull" makers so sought by inquiring minds in t

  1. #31

    Default Re: Allgemiene SS NCO Visor for Analysis

    Another normal wear SS officer's cap ca. 1938/9 Or even later, as these were sold well into the war.

    This cap is a Clemens Wagner make.

    I have shown all these images a hundred times.

    By the way, I associate utterly no meaning to one cap maker or to the other. More value adheres to the date of manufacture, as the early caps (i.e. 1934-1936) were of far better quality of construction than the later types. These I illustrate here are more flimsy and of lesser materials, which was in keeping with the finances of the SS and also the measures of price controls, rationalization and pre-war mobilization in the textiles trades. Uniformen Markt is full of articles to this effect. These things certainly were not retailed in what you likes would call a "free market" by today's lights.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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    damit, basta.

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  3. #32

    Default Re: Allgemiene SS NCO Visor for Analysis

    Here is how this all appeared in the art work of the time and a surviving example of an early cap. Foetid woolens of which I have shown enough for this day.

    May your dreams be filled with RZM tags and crimped prongs to your heart's content.....
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    damit, basta.

  4. #33
    ?

    Default Re: Allgemiene SS NCO Visor for Analysis

    Quoting your post from an other thread...

    "The Kleiderkasse SS was part of the Verwaltungsamt SS and then the Wirtschafts- und Verwaltungshauptamt and a huge money maker for the SS leadership."

    So...

    The RZM was the licensing authority that acted as quality control to NSDAP uniform makers (SS being a formation of the NSDAP.)

    The SS VA, among other things, acted as a secretariat for the purchase, storage and distribution to formations of both finished uniform items and raw materials (wool broadcloth etc.)

    The SS Kleiderkasse was a PX system under the SSVA which acted as a "credit union" for uniform items and meters of cloth.

    In an economy where the black hole of Wehrmacht rearmarment and subsequent war production recieved priority, the political muscle of the SS VA would be needed to pull resources towards its formations.

    Is any of this remotely correct?

    Of course all this leads toward wool mills, quota systems, distribution, the work of Pohl, internecine rivalry between the SS and armed forces, etc., etc.
    Last edited by Tricot; 06-05-2010 at 06:19 PM.

  5. #34

    Default Re: Allgemiene SS NCO Visor for Analysis

    Hi Trikot, you have got it right.

    Cheers, Ade.

  6. #35

    Default Re: Allgemiene SS NCO Visor for Analysis

    Quote by Tricot View Post
    Quoting your post from an other thread...

    "The Kleiderkasse SS was part of the Verwaltungsamt SS and then the Wirtschafts- und Verwaltungshauptamt and a huge money maker for the SS leadership."

    So...

    The RZM was the licensing authority that acted as quality control to NSDAP uniform makers (SS being a formation of the NSDAP.)

    The SS VA, among other things, acted as a secretariat for the purchase, storage and distribution to formations of both finished uniform items and raw materials (wool broadcloth etc.)

    The SS Kleiderkasse was a PX system under the SSVA which acted as a "credit union" for uniform items and meters of cloth.

    In an economy where the black hole of Wehrmacht rearmarment and subsequent war production recieved priority, the political muscle of the SS VA would be needed to pull resources towards its formations.

    Is any of this remotely correct?

    Of course all this leads toward wool mills, quota systems, distribution, the work of Pohl, internecine rivalry between the SS and armed forces, etc., etc.
    Dear Sir, the RZM was the heir to the Zeugmeister of the black Reichswehr which, in turn, formed the basis for the Zeugmeisterei of the SA (the standardization of said uniform began more or less in 1925) taken over by the Schatzmeister of the NSDAP in 1930.
    In the course of 1933/4 there emerged a separate section in the RZM concerned with the SS. The Verwaltungsamt SS was the administrative section of the SS based on a similar institution in the SA, in which sections dealt with uniforms and equipment. The RZM had various roles and functions that grew over time. The VASS had the role especially of financial affairs as well as routine administrative affairs. Especially in the attempt by the SS to grow in its roles and missions the matter of finances was a hurdle. Pohl was especially adept at manipulating other sources of funding to get around budget limitations, a phenomenon in which the VASS and the Kleiderkasse SS are to be seen. Some SS regalia was bought in braune Laeden, to the extent it was permitted to be retailed through the retail organization of the RZM. It had its own sales outlet and then vetted other outlets in their thousands to sell this material. Some SS regalia was issued in the VASS system. The Kleiderkasse SS was based on those cooperatives of the services whose goal it was to offer credit and prevent officers from going into debt as well generally the case in the old armies with kit. But the Kleiderkasse SS was surely not the sole source of this regalia.

    The cap you posted at the beginning here was retailed by the RZM. It says as much on the tag as is the case on the similar cap I posted of mine that was the property of an SSTV officer.

    The above must be set in the context of the political economy of Germany in the era 1914-1945, about which there are even books in English to say nothing of the superb literature in German.

    The Uniformen Markt periodical reveals all of this in detail, as do the SS Verordnungsblaetter when you read between the lines.

    I have a professional interest in German society, state, and even economy in the 20th century reaching back several decades and have been surrounded by economic historians in much of my working life, so some of the above has rubbed off by accident.

    The Uniformen Markt gives a much needed face to all of this, especially in the person of Eberhard Assmann who built up the Zeugmeisterei der SA in Berlin which then became the leading RZM vetted outlet there. His biography and that of Oswald Pohl and those in the SS Verwaltungsamt have a lot to say about the character of this regalia.

    Yet their names are never mentioned on the other site, where the obsession with Robert Lubstein would make one believe that he was the sole figure in the regalia trade in Germany....and his self appointed biographer is naive enough to believe myths and legends to the effect that this firm had no relationship with the leading party/state organizations.

    These tags contain an entry for the retail license number of the said brauner Laden or the RZM itself. The terms: Einzelhandel or Vertriebsstelle. The black tag is more or less of the era 1936-8, and the white tag of the era 1934-5/6 based on what I have seen, however restricted such evidence must be.

    Once more, this is knowledge not to be found on the other regalia sites. I have also tried to offer it plain English, without resort to an insider jargon or argot which will plainly be difficult to understand for the world wide readership that obtains here.

    Finally, I am a mortal enemy of all attempts at standardization in the interpretation of this material that diverges from the historical record, such as we can still find it. We should use the original German terms or a literal translation of same into English.

    I am very eager to learn from others, especially those who have fresh and compelling evidence that will add to, or somehow correct what I have written above.
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    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 06-05-2010 at 08:16 PM.
    damit, basta.

  7. #36

    Default Re: Allgemiene SS NCO Visor for Analysis

    Quote by stonemint View Post
    F-B, you always say (and explain) it better than most of us could.
    Ditto to Stonemints' comments!!

  8. #37

    Default Re: Allgemiene SS NCO Visor for Analysis

    Quote by texasuberalles View Post
    Ditto to Stonemints' comments!!
    Danke vielmals und servus nach Texas, lieber Kamerad!

    We have not seen you in this space for a great while and salute you. I hope you are well and please grace us with your presence.
    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 06-06-2010 at 05:23 AM.
    damit, basta.

  9. #38
    ?

    Default Re: Allgemiene SS NCO Visor for Analysis

    I have only found this interesting post on my return from abroad; I have read it through carefully, but cannot bring up several of F-B's photos; perhaps this has already been shown on the thread, but here it is again (Mueller EM visor):
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  10. #39
    ?

    Default Re: Allgemiene SS NCO Visor for Analysis

    Thank you for the image. Is that from an NCO's visor?

    The artificial silk and detail and crispness of the runes is very interesting. Is this a "signature" Mueller look?

    Quote by Frog View Post
    I have only found this interesting post on my return from abroad; I have read it through carefully, but cannot bring up several of F-B's photos; perhaps this has already been shown on the thread, but here it is again (Mueller EM visor):

  11. #40

    Default Re: Allgemiene SS NCO Visor for Analysis

    My small contibution of a different configuration of an interior (officer).
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    Last edited by texasuberalles; 06-07-2010 at 03:45 AM.

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