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Allgemiene SS NCO Visor for Analysis

Article about: Some one should ask him, don't you think? Maybe the document there on the desk in the Prinz Albrechtstrasse is the Rosetta stone of "scull" makers so sought by inquiring minds in t

  1. #51
    ?

    Default Re: Allgemiene SS NCO Visor for Analysis

    I had flirted with the Muetzenfabrik thread but am now thoroughly engaged.

    The images of the Braune Laedan window displays simply rip my collectors' heart out. One never sees that level of detail in a film depiction of a city street from the period.

    Regarding the SS Kleiderkasse, was it a brick and mortar operation? Or simply a catalog driven operation?

    In other words, was the SS Kleiderkasse simply wholesale cost direct sales catalog to SS personal, versus the RZM Einzelhandel licensed Braune Laeden which were street shops selling to walk-in customers at full retail price?

    So far it seems the individual SS member could obtain a new muetze from these four sources:

    1. Depot issued at the unit level -- SS VA stamped items for 08/15 formations, and possibly different markings for SSVT formations. Dienstmuetzen and fuhrermuetzen from depots have the orange oilcloth lining.

    2. SS Kleiderkasse catalog -- Discount source for SS members. Headwear could come from a variety of manufacturers, IE: Lubstein, Clemens Wagner, Mueller. Headgear from this source have the champagne or black lining. These "Extra" hats are termed "Eigentumsmuetze" which could be translated as "Private Purchase hat."

    3. Braune Laeden -- Storefront shops. These are RZM authorized retailers, holders of the coveted Einzelhandel retail license. I imagine they sold Eigentumsmuetzen and not the SS VA orange lined versions.

    4. Private Tailors -- I assume they would order direct from the Muetenfabriken and maintain a stock stock of visor hats to accompany the hosen and rocks they construct for their SS clientele.

    Let me caveat the above; I am only summarizing my current research. I am grasping in the dark sands of time, none of this should be taken as gospel. Amen.

    Reference is make in the Muetzenfabrik thread to the "big four" hat manufacturers placing joint advertisements in Uniformen Markt. As they were advertising together, did they issue a wholesale catalog together for both tailors and storefront retailers?
    Last edited by Tricot; 06-07-2010 at 07:51 PM.

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  3. #52
    ?

    Default Re: Allgemiene SS NCO Visor for Analysis

    I realized I had never actually translated a white tag. This is a Mueller oilcloth tag posted in another thread by the esteemed F-B.


    Here is my best translation at the moment:

    Distributer Number: RZM
    Manufacturer Number: 143 (Mueller)
    Owner's Membership Number: (blank)

    Unauthorized possession of official Party uniforms; according to the President's Regulation of March 21, 1933; is punishable by imprisonment for up to 2 years.

    N.S.D.A.P. Quartermaster of the Empire Number:



    Very interesting little caveat about unauthorized possession. I know this is very old news to the gracious fellow collectors on this site, but I had no idea know the Treason Act, "Heimtueckegesetz" had left its nasty fingerprints in the visors we collect.

    I am assuming this label reflects the robust 20 DEC, 1934 amendment to the 21 MAR, 1933 "Malicious Gossip Law."

    Amazing what one can learn by simply reading the label.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Tricot; 06-07-2010 at 10:22 PM.

  4. #53

    Default Re: Allgemiene SS NCO Visor for Analysis

    While I do not want necessarily to endorse wares, a cap from what I believe the Peppera collection is for sale and is of the species of Sonderanfertigung we have discussed here. It is a handsome piece of early date. Since I just bought a German car, I am not going to buy the thing, but it is nonetheless an interesting example of a rare cap in very fine condition.

    This cap has the merit that it is dated, and the maker of the sweat band has included its full nomenclature, abbreviated later as KL, which led some less insightful personages to imagine that this cap was made in a concentration camp. It was made on the Dachauerstrasse in Munich, it is true, but by the Fa. Mueller. It was retailed by the RZM, also in Munich.
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    damit, basta.

  5. #54

    Default Re: Allgemiene SS NCO Visor for Analysis

    Quote by Tricot View Post
    I had flirted with the Muetzenfabrik thread but am now thoroughly engaged.

    The images of the Braune Laedan window displays simply rip my collectors' heart out. One never sees that level of detail in a film depiction of a city street from the period. You are looking at the wrong films.

    Regarding the SS Kleiderkasse, was it a brick and mortar operation? yes Or simply a catalog driven operation? yes, it sold via catalog and order, too, but it had ever more retail outlets as the SS grew

    In other words, was the SS Kleiderkasse simply wholesale cost direct sales catalog to SS personal, versus the RZM Einzelhandel licensed Braune Laeden which were street shops selling to walk-in customers at full retail price? SS members bought in the former, while all NSDAP persons of all branches (including SS) bought in the latter to the degree that SS material was retailed there, which, it was not always, as certain items were only had via the VASS channgels

    So far it seems the individual SS member could obtain a new muetze from these four sources:

    1. Depot issued at the unit level -- SS VA stamped items for 08/15 formations, and possibly different markings for SSVT formations. Dienstmuetzen and fuhrermuetzen from depots have the orange oilcloth lining. NO, not really. Caps issued to persons who were entitled to a uniform were thus equipped, but in the main, SS men bought their uniforms. This was a signal early feature of the SA and later the SS

    2. SS Kleiderkasse catalog -- Discount source for SS members. Headwear could come from a variety of manufacturers, IE: Lubstein, Clemens Wagner, Mueller. Headgear from this source have the champagne or black lining. These "Extra" hats are termed "Eigentumsmuetze" which could be translated as "Private Purchase hat." Read the price list, since there are a variety of things one could buy, regardless;

    3. Braune Laeden -- Storefront shops. These are RZM authorized retailers, holders of the coveted Einzelhandel retail license. I imagine they sold Eigentumsmuetzen and not the SS VA orange lined versions. A cap from this source would not have the stamp, but I imagine that they sold all types, in fact

    4. Private Tailors -- I assume they would order direct from the Muetenfabriken and maintain a stock stock of visor hats to accompany the hosen and rocks they construct for their SS clientele. These were entitled to make their own caps if they made a uniform, but they had to have an RZM license of which there thousands and thousands

    Let me caveat the above; I am only summarizing my current research. I am grasping in the dark sands of time, none of this should be taken as gospel. Amen.

    Reference is make in the Muetzenfabrik thread to the "big four" hat manufacturers placing joint advertisements in Uniformen Markt. As they were advertising together, did they issue a wholesale catalog together for both tailors and storefront retailers? Not that I am aware, they merely joined forces to advertise, since such things were extraordinary practices beyond the means of such firms in the main
    see above as concerns colleague Tricot's search for deeper insights into caps.
    damit, basta.

  6. #55

    Default Re: Allgemiene SS NCO Visor for Analysis

    Here the runes are intact.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    damit, basta.

  7. #56

    Default Re: Allgemiene SS NCO Visor for Analysis

    Where this cap (above for sale) originated from, a fine source of a noted collector.

    Give this piece a fine home. By the way, for all ankle biters and those seized by jealousy in their number, I have no commercial interest in this at all. In fact, since I receive queries daily about the disposition of my material, I am at pains to help others own something of merit.

    I do not make a bloody farthing off of any of the things I post.

    sapere aude.
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    damit, basta.

  8. #57

    Default Re: Allgemiene SS NCO Visor for Analysis

    Quote by Tricot View Post
    I realized I had never actually translated a white tag. This is a Mueller oilcloth tag posted in another thread by the esteemed F-B.


    Here is my best translation at the moment:

    Distributer Number: RZM
    Manufacturer Number: 143 (Mueller)
    Owner's Membership Number: (blank)

    Unauthorized possession of official Party uniforms; according to the President's Regulation of March 21, 1933; is punishable by imprisonment for up to 2 years.

    N.S.D.A.P. Quartermaster of the Empire Number:



    Very interesting little caveat about unauthorized possession. I know this is very old news to the gracious fellow collectors on this site, but I had no idea know the Treason Act, "Heimtueckegesetz" had left its nasty fingerprints in the visors we collect.

    I am assuming this label reflects the robust 20 DEC, 1934 amendment to the 21 MAR, 1933 "Malicious Gossip Law."

    Amazing what one can learn by simply reading the label.
    The Heimetueckegesetz was an important part of the establishment of Nazi rule on the ruins of the Weimar Republic. It was also quite typical of the totalitarian process of gutting the rule of law and the Rechtsstaat. The initial version in late 1933 was superseded by a further law of 1934 for the protection of symbols of the party and state which was the basis for all the RZM marks we see in the firmament. All of this is contained as an annex in the Organisationsbuch der NSDAP and the text is also on line in various places. There is a nice monograph also in German on the Heimtueckegesetz and its effect as well for those who want to delve deeper. The issue concerned the misuse of party uniforms, especially by Jews apparently in certain cases, if what is in UM is to be believed, of which I am pretty skeptical. There was a conflation of people abusing the uniform as well as people making same to low quality standards.

    You get a plus, dear Herr Tricot, that you noticed this detail, which otherwise is lost on the average collector.


    Happy tags to all seekers of the past.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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    damit, basta.

  9. #58

    Default Re: Allgemiene SS NCO Visor for Analysis

    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    In fact, since I receive queries daily about the disposition of my material, I am at pains to help others own something of merit.
    I would certainly inquire if I could afford.

    F-B, the examples I've seen of yours are predominantly Allgemeine SS? Do you happen to have an example of a Waffen SS artillery crusher or something similar? I'm looking for some good reference images, especially of the inside and that.

  10. #59

    Default Re: Allgemiene SS NCO Visor for Analysis

    Quote by locloc08 View Post
    I would certainly inquire if I could afford.

    F-B, the examples I've seen of yours are predominantly Allgemeine SS? Do you happen to have an example of a Waffen SS artillery crusher or something similar? I'm looking for some good reference images, especially of the inside and that.
    I have somewhere images of a grey artillery field cap from the Kaps firm, which was for sale a few months ago, but I am not sure where it is.

    Here is a nice grey cap, but it has white piping. It was originally Stezelberger's and he sold it many years ago. He still has the image on his site, for which he should pay residuals to the present owner.....

    If you want images of real field caps with the peak for the Waffen SS, these are in the Shea Beaver book from Schiffer in greater numbers than had elsewhere.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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    damit, basta.

  11. #60

    Default Re: Allgemiene SS NCO Visor for Analysis

    This cap is also in the Shea Beaver book, actually. For what it is worth. A similar one is in the Wilkins book.
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    damit, basta.

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