Black SS tunic arrival

**Styx** · 02-20-2012, 05:00 PM

This is the big one!
I posted some hazy photographs the other day of this tunic, leading to an unsure verdict, so I figured I would purchase it, then post some clearer ones. First of all, I'll say that the seller (who has sold this sort of thing before with no clear problems) says that the tunic has been in "a private collection in Germany", then owned by them for five years. It seems doubtful that they are trying to cheat me, either, as they were selling other definitely genuine tunics from other divisions and promised me a full refund if the tunic is not original.
The tunic itself definitely shows wear; there are also marks where the original insignia appear to have once sat. The marks are reasonably subtle, to me a good sign as many of these so-called stripped tunics have incredibly flamboyant remains of insignia which are clearly the work of fakers. There is one medal loop.
I posted images to the owner of a website owned by "the only reputable SS dealer in the country" according to another source who recommended them to me; they say that their opinion is positive and it stands a good chance of being an original period piece, as it is not typical RZM issue.

So here it is. If there are any alarm bells, sadly I'll have to return it. If it passes the test here then I'll send it on to FB for in-hand inspection, for the final exam. Any and all opinions appreciated. Thanks!

Robbie

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 02-20-2012 05:00 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Styx** · 02-20-2012, 05:12 PM

Another picture:

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 02-20-2012, 06:41 PM

I hate to be a stinker, but I do not think the piece is real. It is not as well made as an original, and the appearance of the wool suggests modern synthetic textiles with the wool. In particular the reverse of the collar is very sloppy, and unlike a real garment. I wager it is an old Janke piece, since these have existed at least since the 1980s.
Notice how there is a strong reflection of light with the Trikot. This is typical of modern fakes. I also do not like the snaps for the insignia. I have only seen those on fakes, and none of the more than twenty uniforms I own....more than twenty...have these snaps. Period. You should photograph the front and back of the buttons very carefully, as this is also a strong criterion. However, you are free to make up your own mind as well as rely on whatever expertise offers itself.

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 02-20-2012, 06:43 PM

Notice how these pieces reflect light versus the coal grey appearance of your recent thing. Of course, the only way to tell is to feel the difference in the hand of the cloth. However, the imitation Trikot is always, and I mean, always inferior to the original, and the Janke ones or the Chinese ones have modern synthetics mixed into the wool.

As I wrote earlier, I'd be happy to examine it, or have the noted SS dealer in the UK examine it, but based on your images, I would send it back and save your money.

Sorry.

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 02-20-2012, 06:52 PM

More examples.

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 02-20-2012, 06:54 PM

As I say, the only way really to tell is to feel the thing. Such is life, isn't it?
I am sorry to cast doubt, but my data base is somewhat larger than that of others..... and others are free to offer an opinion within the limits of this data, itself.

**Styx** · 02-20-2012, 06:59 PM

Thank you for the comments, FB. I knew that there was a risk due to your warning when I bought this so I'm not unprepared for this news. It's a shame, sure, but I'd be a fool to ignore your advice. I'll send it to the dealer, as he seems quite keen to get his hands on it, and feed back with any news. Thanks for the help.

Robbie

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 02-20-2012, 07:03 PM

by Styx

Thank you for the comments, FB. I knew that there was a risk due to your warning when I bought this so I'm not unprepared for this news. It's a shame, sure, but I'd be a fool to ignore your advice. I'll send it to the dealer, as he seems quite keen to get his hands on it, and feed back with any news. Thanks for the help.

Robbie

Dear Sir, I wish I had no doubts, but these are my thoughts with visual foot notes. Do tell me what the dealer has to say, of course. The only way to really know these things is physically to compare one piece to known real items.
with best wishes, FB

**Styx** · 02-20-2012, 07:11 PM

It's fine, FB, I'd hate for you to say you thought it was real when you did not. I only would like genuine items in my collection. You're fortunate enough to own such a large number of these that you'd surely recognise the difference. The dealer does own one or two black tunics too, so hopefully he'll be able to compare them.
Attached are pictures of the buttons, for what little difference it makes..

Robbie

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 02-20-2012, 07:12 PM

I first saw one of the Janke fakes about twenty years ago, and the first thing that I noticed that the wool TRikot was ever so slightly grey black, anthracite, versus black as the ace of spades, which the originals are...especially in good shape. Of course, all textiles lose their color with time. However, they do not have the grey appearance in photos which, I guess, is the radiance of the synthetics, which is not present in the originals. Maybe this criterion is berserk, but I have looked at a helluva lot of images of silly black uniforms, mind you, and live with my collection. The hand of the Janke tunic was also a give away as to its junky nature. That is, one could immediately feel the difference with the III. Reich woolens.....