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Black SS uniform in wear, 1943

Article about: Dear Colleague, in contrast, here is an Austrian Allgemeine SS man, but I think of a higher echelon of command. I think colleague d'alquen originally furnished us this image. My wild guess i

  1. #1

    Default Black SS uniform in wear, 1943

    Goebbels congratulates SS officer who has received war service cross ca. 1943.



    I believe colleague Lumsden found this interesting image. The scene is before the Sportpalast, one of the favorite locales for Goebbels' mass meetings for the Berlin party organizations.
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    damit, basta.

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  3. #2

    Default Re: Black SS uniform in wear, 1943

    I know I should know the answer, but did the Allgemeine-SS enlisted and NCO personnel continue to wear the black tunic throughout the war? I have never seen images of EM/NCOs wearing the Allgemeine cut feldgrau tunic. I know the Allgemeine-SS was merely a 'skeleton' of its' pre-war years, but there was supposedly an order to change to the feldgrau tunic for wartime.

    Bob Hritz
    I am seeking Golden Party Badge # 77578, Luftwaffe blue summerweight flight pants, used Geschwader Immelmann officer's cuff title.

  4. #3
    ?

    Default Re: Black SS uniform in wear, 1943

    IMO the RSHHA being worn it till the end of the war?
    Regards,
    Dimas

    my Skype: warrelics

  5. #4

    Default Re: Black SS uniform in wear, 1943

    Quote by Bob Hritz View Post
    I know I should know the answer, but did the Allgemeine-SS enlisted and NCO personnel continue to wear the black tunic throughout the war? I have never seen images of EM/NCOs wearing the Allgemeine cut feldgrau tunic. I know the Allgemeine-SS was merely a 'skeleton' of its' pre-war years, but there was supposedly an order to change to the feldgrau tunic for wartime.

    Bob Hritz
    I believe those in a full time billet could wear a grey uniform, but the bulk of others (part timers) were not entitled to such a uniform and continued to wear black. This image is of an uncertain date. Much of what the secondary literature asserts (...and especially the group think of collectors) is either incomplete or in error. Notice in this image that there are officers in both black and grey.

    The Beaver book gives the impression that for the SS at arms, black uniforms were forbidden for wear, and recycled later in raw material drives. However, the endurance of even the latter seems to put the lie to this order.

    There is a nice new biography of Heini Himmler's poet laureate out in Germany, Hans Johst, who was a Brigadefuehrer or the like. He had to ask Himmler for permission to wear a grey uniform for visits to the front and the like.

    If one our little band has documentary evidence what is beyond in the secondary works, I should be grateful.

    The issue is of interest as to explain how the existing black uniforms made it to 1945, if, as collectors assume...."...they were replaced in 1942" which the photographic evidence simply doesn't support and logic does not either, granted the situation of raw materials and the war economy.
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    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 08-08-2008 at 05:08 PM.
    damit, basta.

  6. #5

    Default Re: Black SS uniform in wear, 1943

    A scene from September 1942 and January 1941 of AH in the Sportpalast. The black uniform is plainly present. There are other images well into 1944, actually, of at least color guards for SS Sturmbannfahnen or Feldzeichen at funerals with the black uniform in wear.

    As to Dimas' post, if you mean RSHA, I should think they got the grey uniform rather early on , even before the war's outbreak.

    You must recall that a large fraction of SS officers, for instance, were in part time billets. Look in the rank list for this important distinction. I believe the rank and file of the Allgemeine SS were part timers, and I do not believe that they received a grey uniform ever. I have never seen an enlisted uniform for a 08/15 Allgemeine SS man in grey. For Standarte or Abschnitt level SS officers in the Allgemeine SS, I have seen images of grey uniforms beyond what I have posted here.
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    damit, basta.

  7. #6

    Default Re: Black SS uniform in wear, 1943

    I am sure our stalwart colleague d' Alquen can be of aid in this arcane matter.
    damit, basta.

  8. #7

    Default Re: Black SS uniform in wear, 1943

    a wartime burial of air raid victims, I believe, in Bavaria. Note color guard.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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    damit, basta.

  9. #8
    michal
    ?

    Default Re: Black SS uniform in wear, 1943

    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    a wartime burial of air raid victims, I believe, in Bavaria. Note color guard.
    You are right. I have another photo showing Paul Giesler, Gauleiter in München-Oberbayern, who had a speech at this funeral.

    Michal

  10. #9

    Default Re: Black SS uniform in wear, 1943

    Quote by michal View Post
    You are right. I have another photo showing Paul Giesler, Gauleiter in München-Oberbayern, who had a speech at this funeral.

    Michal
    Thank you. Do you know the date of said image? These are incorrectly dated in the Timepix site.
    damit, basta.

  11. #10

    Default Re: Black SS uniform in wear, 1943

    Bob,
    I think that in the case of formal occasions the black uniform was still the order of dress regardless of the war. For normal service by the few remaining members of the Allgemeine-SS field grey was probably the norm, although I don't recall any specific orders or instructions for this practice.
    Here a man from the SS-Anseidlungskommando, responsible for repatriating Volksdeutsche, wears the grey uniform with slip-on boards. Note the rare cuff title for this group. The photo was probably taken in 1941.
    D.
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