Become our sponsor and display your banner here
Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 49

Black SS Uniforms - A better understanding.

Article about: Our readers will note that none of the other sites offer the responsive editorial role complete with fine illustrations as to be found here......

  1. #1
    Spindler
    ?

    Default Black SS Uniforms - A better understanding.

    Just wondering if any one could help me get a better understanding on the topic of SS Uniforms, preferably the black ones. I have listed below some areas that hold particular fascination and i would appreciate any help, no matter how small, as i am new to this subject. Thanks.

    1. SS-Leibstandarte 1933-39, did they wear a black dress uniform when not on formal guard / parade duty? If yes, did this continue through the war years or did they revert to Field Grey as per regular units;

    2. SS-Leibstandarte 1939-45, guard / parade uniforms. Are there any detailed photos or good reference books showing this uniform?

    3. SS-Leibstandarte in general - black uniforms with black belts, cross-belts etc?

  2. # ADS
     

  3. #2

    Default Re: Black SS Uniforms - A better understanding.

    Quote by Spindler View Post
    1. SS-Leibstandarte 1933-39, did they wear a black dress uniform when not on formal guard / parade duty? If yes, did this continue through the war years or did they revert to Field Grey as per regular units;?
    Slightly simplified (!), it breaks down like this:

    In the pre-war years, the black uniform was the only permitted parade-, dress- and walking out uniform for the entire SS including the LSSAH.

    However, the full-time, barracked and armed formations (LSSAH & SSVT, SSTV) already used other uniform colors for everyday work-/field-/barracks- etc. duty: earth grey (SSVT), earth brown (SSTV) and field grey (initially only the LSSAH but soon all of the aforementioned). Various drill and sports uniforms were used as well.

    Wear of the black uniform by these armed formations quickly ceased altogether after the outbreak of WW2. During the war years, the black uniform was still worn by the part-timers of the Allgemeine SS and by the "Germanic" SS formations.

    Quote by Spindler View Post
    2. SS-Leibstandarte 1939-45, guard / parade uniforms. Are there any detailed photos or good reference books showing this uniform?
    No special guard or parade uniform for the LAH existed during wartime.

    Reference books on Waffen-SS uniforms and insignia are numerous.

    By far the best standard reference for Waffen-SS uniforms is "Uniforms of the Waffen-SS" (3 volumes) by the late Michael D. Beaver with its companion titles "SS Helmets" (M. Beaver with Kelly Hicks) and "The Collector's Guide To The Distinctive Cloth Headgear Of The Allgemeine And Waffen-SS" (M. Beaver with William Shea) Pricey, but worth it.

    A still indispensible classic is "Uniforms of the SS" (6 volumes) by Andrew Mollo.

    For the Leibstandarte specifically, Stan Cook and R. James Bender's "Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler - Uniforms, Organization and History" is also recommended, but this work is restricted to the pre-war years.

    For more general information, the various Osprey Military titles are also quite good, for example the four volumes on the Waffen-SS from their MAA series.


    Quote by Spindler View Post
    3. SS-Leibstandarte in general - black uniforms with black belts, cross-belts etc?
    Originally, all leather equipment used by the Leibstandarte was black as it was for all other branches and units of the SS.

    In 1936, distinctive white leather equipment was introduced exclusively for the Leibstandarte. This consisted at first of white leather belts, cross straps, bayonet frogs and pistol holsters, soon followed by back straps and eventually ammunition pouches.

    Officers originally wore the white leather officers' version of the belt until the new brocade belt was introduced in 1937.

    Wartime uniforms were field grey. (The white leather equipment was only worn with the black unform.)

  4. #3

    Default Re: Black SS Uniforms - A better understanding.

    See Mollo vol 3. In addition to the nice list of sources well cited above (whereby the Beaver volumes are not as clear as concerns the organization of the SS as is Mollo...) you should also look at the French vols. on the LAH (Heimdal) which contain rather more archival pictures with photos to show the evolution of the uniform in the brief period 1933-1939. I shall leave to others the matter of the various colors of grey used in the years 1934/5 until 1939. The piece I enclose below was, in fact, likely a parade or I Garnitur uniform, especially because the thing still has belt hooks. The surest method to follow the evolution of said uniform is via dated photos, the best collection of which are found in the Heimdal Press works.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	gma2868[1].jpg 
Views:	25407 
Size:	243.7 KB 
ID:	57183  
    damit, basta.

  5. #4

    Default Re: Black SS Uniforms - A better understanding.

    from another website....
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	gma4613.jpg 
Views:	9751 
Size:	220.6 KB 
ID:	57184  
    damit, basta.

  6. #5
    Spindler
    ?

    Default Re: Black SS Uniforms - A better understanding.

    FB - Many thanks for your assistance in answering this one so thoroughly, I am indebted to you. Can you add any more information on the Black Trench / Long coat seen in the archive footage of the Leibstandarte when on parade or ceremonial duties? I have also seen same coat with the lapels when folded outwards being white - I presume for officer rank only?

    Many thanks.

  7. #6

    Default Re: Black SS Uniforms - A better understanding.

    Quote by Spindler View Post
    FB - Many thanks for your assistance in answering this one so thoroughly, I am indebted to you. Can you add any more information on the Black Trench / Long coat seen in the archive footage of the Leibstandarte when on parade or ceremonial duties? I have also seen same coat with the lapels when folded outwards being white - I presume for officer rank only?

    Many thanks.
    Said lapels were light grey and for flag rank and above. Someone here has an example to post. I do somewhere, but I cannot find it at the moment. Bob Coleman has a senior rank coat, as does Peter Jenkins.

    PS I did find an image of Jenkins' piece, but it is a "bmp" and I cannot post it or am too dumb to do so.
    damit, basta.

  8. #7
    Spindler
    ?

    Default Re: Black SS Uniforms - A better understanding.

    So for my limited knowledge - Flag Rank?

    Also did the Allgemeine have a black coat with white lapels? Have seen some photos with Himmler etc wearing this type.

    Thanks

  9. #8

    Default Re: Black SS Uniforms - A better understanding.

    Quote by Spindler View Post
    So for my limited knowledge - Flag Rank?

    Also did the Allgemeine have a black coat with white lapels? Have seen some photos with Himmler etc wearing this type.

    Thanks
    flag rank is US Navy speak for general or admiral rank officer.....

    All branches of the SS with the black uniform with the rank of Oberfuehrer and above had silver grey lapels and white piping on the front of the coat. Such was also the same for the field grey uniform introduced ca. 1937/8.

    Happy lapels to all.

    Despite what others suggest, the best work on all of this is still the 6 volumes of Mollo. The Beaver books are attractive, but they are too focused on the accidental circumstance of certain pieces in certain collections, and the later work is not comprehensive in the manner that Mollo remains. I am sure I will irritate a lot of you with this generalization, but it is no less the case. The organization of the SS is the key to understanding its uniforms, since the latter diverges from military organization or paramilitary organizations familiar to North America and western Europe.
    damit, basta.

  10. #9

    Default Re: Black SS Uniforms - A better understanding.

    Afore mentioned by FB, the mantel, belt and cross strap belonging to Obergruppenfuhrer Hans Lammers
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	HANS LAMMERS MANTEL 001.jpg 
Views:	31610 
Size:	216.3 KB 
ID:	58005  
    BOB

    LIFE'S LOSERS NEVER LEARN FROM THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS.

  11. #10

    Default Re: Black SS Uniforms - A better understanding.

    Thanks to colleague Coleman for this very impressive Adjustierung.

    Note the velvet collar, which is an exceptional touch. Also, the designation silbergrau is elucidated here, too.
    damit, basta.

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Estonian SS volunteers and history

    In SS Uniforms and insignia
    11-07-2016, 08:57 PM
  2. Black SS Transitional Helmet

    In SS Helmet forum
    06-11-2013, 10:32 AM
  3. Rare SS Proficiency Motor School Award

    In Photos - Papers - Propaganda of the Third Reich
    03-16-2011, 01:06 AM
  4. 2oth estonian ss division reunion?

    In The Estonian Army - 1918-1940
    03-11-2011, 06:10 PM
  5. ss div artillery units crew uniforms

    In SS Uniforms and insignia
    08-11-2009, 11:15 AM

Members who have read this thread: 7

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •