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Black Tunic

Article about: I have various ones of these that then, funnily enough, the "research" people assigned to the wrong individual, i.e. Mueller, Fischer, etc. if the name is common. This has happened

  1. #11


    So just to update on this, the tunic was from Hanns Fischer, Peter Jenkins managed to get this tunic and also a Grey tunic of his which alas had gone into the Eastern Block! As FB said this came with a card announcing his marriage. I have now had this researched by Westmoreland research and I now have a copy of his RuSHA file, within this was his hand written service record with some very interesting details:

    15/3/33 Joined the SS - number 62711
    Various standarte positions through to 1/12/39 including 65 and then Abschnitt XXIX, and prior 65, abschnitt XXXXV

    Then interestingly:

    1/12/39 - 27/3/40 - SS LSAH
    28/3/40 - 7/5/40 - SS JS Toltz
    8/5/40 - 17/6/40 - SS LSAH
    18/6/40 - 9/8/40 - 5 reg SS Deutschland
    10/8/40 - 21/8/40 - 2 E SS Deutschland

    At this point the service record stops, but documents referring to:

    XXIX again in early 1942
    Standarte 65 later in 1942
    The records go to March 45, so he was still in service then

    Lots of documents - if only I could read German!

    So if any one can help, questions from me:

    Would the military postings and training be to support a reserve position?
    Can anyone tell me what eventually happened to him?
    Did the Abschnitt and standarte structure remain through to the end of the war?

    Many thanks

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  3. #12


    Quote by Tietze View Post
    Would the military postings and training be to support a reserve position?
    It is possible, even likely.

    Born on 13 June 1907, he was already 32 years old when he joined the Waffen-SS; this is rather old to start a career as a professional soldier, but not for a reserve role.

    Judging from the succession of the listed assignments and their duration, it seems that he served with the LAH as an enlisted man (his A-SS officer rank would not have been recognized by the Waffen-SS), underwent officer training at the Junkerschule Tölz, then returned to his parent unit and - perhaps following his being commissioned - was transferred to the Deutschland regiment, were he soon wound up in its replacement unit.

    It is possible that he was wounded during his time with the Waffen-SS and, found unfit for continued military duty, was transferred back to the Allgemeine SS.

    Still, all this is speculation. You mentioned you have a scan of his RuSHA file, does it not have additional information on this matter?

    Quote by Tietze View Post
    Did the Abschnitt and standarte structure remain through to the end of the war?
    Yes, they did, although large numbers of Allgemeine SS personnel were drafted into the armed forces (or volunteered), greatly reducing the personnel strength and significance of its units and administrative apparatus.

    The 65th Standarte was raised at Lahr and moved to Freiburg in September 1933. The Oct. 1937 SS address list has its headquarters at Lessingstr. 14, Freiburg. Along with the 79th Standarte, it was subordinate to Abschnitt XXIX.

    Said Abschnitt was formed at Mannheim in April 1934 and moved to Konstanz in April 1936. The Oct. 1937 address list has it at Adolf-Hitler-Str. 21, Konstanz.

    (All aforementioned cities are located in Baden-Württemberg.)

  4. #13


    Thanks for the additional material. The Allgemeine SS stayed in operation, as Andreas mentions, on a small scale, but it kept going. Just look in all the rank lists.
    It was not untypical for persons to return to civilian life and serve in the branches of the NSDAP, i.e. SA and NSDAP afterwards. The Yelton book on the Volksturm describes such people.

    Andreas or I will be happy to read your file and give you a resume, especially if you post it on line. SS personnel files are always very interesting.
    damit, basta.

  5. #14


    Black TunicBlack TunicHere are the Allgem. SS color guard at Heydrich's funeral, that is June 1942.
    damit, basta.

  6. #15


    Black TunicThanks FB and Andreas, if you would PM me a recommended file sharer I'll gladly put the file on it for your perusal and further comment?


  7. #16


    Andreas is probably more fleet with computers than I, but I will send you a personal note. You can just put the things here, too, since there is much merit to our collective analysis of your material.
    Many hands make light work.
    damit, basta.

  8. #17


    Black TunicBlack TunicHere are a couple of pages, one looks interesting, the other the last date I could find, 1945 - pay?? Any explanation welcome!!


  9. #18


    Black TunicThe telex from echelons of the Allgem. SS speak of a disciplinary action against Hauptsturmfueher Fischer as concerns a matter of service good order and discipline, but did not embody a moral condemnation of his future wife. Nothing of a negative nature is know about this woman. The training officer of the 63 Sta. had apparently said something negative about this person, which is dismissed here as small town gossip.

    Himmler and the R u S H A toads were obsessed with the bona fides of wives of SS officers, and this kind of examination was normal, and plainly led to the kind of friction that was and is a normal part of life between men and women especially in the hierarchy of middle class society as reinterpreted by Heini H and his fuss budget overkill.

    The pay table is interesting because it shows all the allowances netto as well brutto, the basic salary and taxes paid and fees paid.

    Your man received his salary, a household subvention, and a subvention for his children.

    He paid income tax, a compulsory SS savings account, and to the Lebensborn.

    I don't think one should over interpret the last thingy as concerns being in the SS stud farm, but who knows?

    Maybe the woman is question was found in the Lebensborn with a child born of passion, and your man was the source of passion, or at least willing to absorb the consequences...?

    Also, the photo of him shows what is a grey uniform of the Allgem. SS, I think.

    I grew up in the early 70s with Helmut Heiber's compendium of Himmler's letters, which are filled with this kind of nit picking and busy buddy crap ad infinitum.
    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 08-12-2013 at 12:40 AM.
    damit, basta.

  10. #19


    Also, may I say that the most benefit is derived from appending the documents in the order they exist in the file, as a document extracted from context will not make as much sense.
    damit, basta.

  11. #20


    Black TunicBlack TunicThe core document is the SS Stammrollenkarte, which is the foundation of the personnel file along with the curriculum vitae written in hand by the person in question.
    damit, basta.

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