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Black tunic, original?

Article about: by BenVK I don't know, there isn't this study going on in any other area as far as I know. So, to recap, in the terms of the SS black service cap, we know that the earlier, or at least the c

  1. #41

    Default Re: Black tunic, original?

    Quote by BenVK View Post
    I don't know, there isn't this study going on in any other area as far as I know.

    So, to recap, in the terms of the SS black service cap, we know that the earlier, or at least the cap at the time or before the publication of this document, were made from black tuch cloth, which was cheaper per metre, at least for uniforms so I can't imagine it being any different for muetzentuche. Yet we know for certain that the later material of choice for all black hats was trikot, a much more expensive material according to this document.

    The issue you interpret unfolds in detail in the RZM circulars. The textiles in my new book seem more for tunics and overcoats, and for breeches and such.

    I know from experience that many enlisted caps prior to mid or the end of 1935 were in Tuch, and then the transition was made to Trikot. However, my Uniformtuchbuch merely contains the types of textiles used generally, but I am sure there were others, as well, as visible in the army and air force.
    The other thing needed here are the RZM Herstellungsvorschriften, which go into detail about textiles.

    One day you should look at my collection, and it would become clear. There were trikot caps of an early date, as well, in fact, since I own some.

    Also, the point of my intervention in this thread arose because of a highly dorked up fake Japanese made black tunic, to which my comments garnered reproach from the young set because I am a jaded old fart. It is true that I am jaded and an old fart, whereupon I tried to set out some essentials that a young person might employ to analyze these things.

    Plainly, my attempt went into the ditch where I belong.

    You need your translation wizard to translate all the RZM circulars, and then you have to read them all sequentially. That's the key in all of this, as the information there is no where else....no where.
    damit, basta.

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  3. #42

    Default Re: Black tunic, original?

    The RZM Herstellungsvorschriften delineate the details of Muetzentrikot and Muetzentuch. See post below as addendum. I cannot scan them, or it would wreck the binding of said book. This detail does not appear in my Munich thingy I just posted. (I scanned it anyway)

    I also think the same pages are in the Beaver books, actually.

    Happy foetid woolens and may all your dreams be free of vermin who eat old textiles.

    May your stockings be stuffed with the fluffy woolen fruit of the RZM, and your "prongs" be as un crimped as possible, and the ghost of Christmas future will open a horizon to you of limitless head wear, and no un needed, un wanted, un warranted, and un solicited balder dash from the Saint Deschler and Holy Lubstein Grommet cartel of anxiety.Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 12-21-2011 at 07:53 PM.
    damit, basta.

  4. #43

    Default Re: Black tunic, original?

    By the way, my friend, you did a fine job fixing that army cap that is on the sewer site. Chapeau, as it were. A very fine skill and source of real pride is yours and had by almost no one else. If you were nearby, I would pay you handsomely to fix some things.
    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 12-21-2011 at 04:52 AM.
    damit, basta.

  5. #44
    ?

    Default Re: Black tunic, original?

    I might be over analogising things here and I do understand your point about about hats being made of tuch and trikot well before any official declaration of approved fabrics.
    What I'm trying to comprehend is why the state choose the more expensive fabrik, by quite a long way, as the hat fabrik from circa 1934/35 and onwards. Personally, I see no obvious advantages of trikot over tuch in terms of durability especially if trikot was 3 to 4 RM per metre more expensive. That's a lot extra per metre!

  6. #45
    ?

    Default Re: Black tunic, original?

    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    By the war, my friend, you did a fine job fixing that army cap that is on the sewer site. Chapeau, as it were. A very fine skill and source of real pride is yours and had by almost no one else. If you were nearby, I would pay you handsomely to fix some things.
    Thank you FB, in the grand scheme of things, an easier repair. They are never easy as such!

  7. #46

    Default Re: Black tunic, original?

    Quote by BenVK View Post
    I might be over analogising things here and I do understand your point about about hats being made of tuch and trikot well before any official declaration of approved fabrics.
    What I'm trying to comprehend is why the state choose the more expensive fabrik, by quite a long way, as the hat fabrik from circa 1934/35 and onwards. Personally, I see no obvious advantages of trikot over tuch in terms of durability especially if trikot was 3 to 4 RM per metre more expensive. That's a lot extra per metre!
    Fabrik is not fabric, in fact. The words are Textil, Stoff, and Tuch. I do not have an answer in this matter, I can just register it as a fact in the historical record.Click image for larger version. 

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    damit, basta.

  8. #47
    ?

    Default Re: Black tunic, original?

    I'm sorry, you are correct of course. My question still stands though, collectors such as yourself with many years of experience must have addressed the same question however? why the obvious change to trikot when it was more expensive?

  9. #48

    Default Re: Black tunic, original?

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    Quote by BenVK View Post
    I'm sorry, you are correct of course. My question still stands though, collectors such as yourself with many years of experience must have addressed the same question however? why the obvious change to trikot when it was more expensive?
    Though I might be an experienced collector, I cannot answer your question other than to have offered the original evidence that I have gathered in decades of research and reflection.

    The unknown unknowns are too many to list.
    damit, basta.

  10. #49

    Default Re: Black tunic, original?

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	281217You might ask yourself, granted the respective cost of said textile, why was it used in army peaked caps issued to enlisted ranks?
    damit, basta.

  11. #50
    ?

    Default Re: Black tunic, original?

    Well, these are the questions that will stick in the mind and that have never been addressed before? At least not that I know of.

    My curiosity is in regards to age old collectors observations that were around long before I was born but yet now deserve fresh investigation. Don't you think?

    There are so many "facts" in this hobby that are nothing but chinese whispers that we truly need to either validate or dispel.

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