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colored piping on cap, 1943...Sturbannfuehrer Bochmann

Article about: Here is an image of a Waffen SS Panzer ace from what appears to be 1943, and one plainly sees the tell tale colored piping on his cap. An image intended to irritate purists. This image is fr

  1. #31

    Default Re: colored piping on cap, 1943...Sturbannfuehrer Bochmann

    I am grateful that the Bundesarchiv wisely put all these nice images on line to enliven our debates about headwear. It is a pity that these photographers did not photograph all the stitching in each cap at the time, but I am sure if someone did so, the people we see here would have been more than shocked. They had something else on their minds. The other point, actually, about people and this time (which is now getting a lot closer because of 2008...) is how nice a place Berlin looked in the 1920s when you look at the other files going back to 1918. I mean, the Pariser Platz and the nice places in Berlin-Mitte, where the people look amused and doing things with a purpose. There are a lot of images of the celebrities of the Weimar Republic and what not in the years 1924 until 1932.
    damit, basta.

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  3. #32

    Default Re: colored piping on cap, 1943...Sturbannfuehrer Bochmann

    Quote by BenVK View Post
    I once owned what I consider now to be an exceptionaly rare cap indeed..
    Ben,

    It was a nice cap, wasn't it? I wonder what ever came of it? The last I recall, the fellow in Australia was seeking to sell, but I lost track of him . . .

    And I too did like the pics of the recent cap from ROTR . . . if I were still serious about collecting, it would have been mine. I hope the buyer comes out to share some day - I am sure we would all agree that it would be nice to see more of it!

    Happy Holidays to all . . .

    Brad

    P.S. Great pics of the colored caps too! I know there has to be more out there somewhere . . .

  4. #33

    Default Re: colored piping on cap, 1943...Sturbannfuehrer Bochmann

    Thanks, Mr. Wyeth, for your useful intervention. The high jinx on other websites is really exceptionally depressing. The rampant hysteria and headwear jingoism especially as it pertains to SS caps makes me want to throw all of mine out the window.

    Himmler was a great fan of the medieval witch hunts, and certain figures who collect this headwear seem to have re interpreted these events in a new form for their own wretched purpose. Or, maybe, they do not actually own any authentic headwear, and make us all chase our tails with phantom stitching and a list of iron clad rules in the effort to make us all doubt everything, all the time.

    Happy holidays and thanks to all for their pleasant and informed collaboration.
    damit, basta.

  5. #34

    Default Re: colored piping on cap, 1943...Sturbannfuehrer Bochmann

    Another point as concerns Ben VK 's cap with the braune Waffenfarbe. Erfurt is in Thuerigen, and is not exceptionally far from Weimar, i.e. Buchenwald. Erfurt has very good sausage and a nice cathedral, too.
    damit, basta.

  6. #35

    Default Re: colored piping on cap, 1943...Sturbannfuehrer Bochmann

    FB,
    The BA image in post 32 of the man with his trouser legs cut off shows the Jewish lawyer Michael Siegel being paraded through Munich in March 1933 after complaining to the police about a client taken into protective custody.
    However, this open and rabid anti-Semitism so pervasive throughout German society at the time is not an altogether accurate reflection of the KL system in the 1930's.
    The bulk of the prisoners held in protective custody, some 90%, were German males considered to be political enemies, common criminals or "work-shy". The construction work on the Dachau administration building photographed by the Bauer brothers shows the punitive, labour related nature of the camp system at this time. I bring this up to point out that it could be argued that the KL camp system, despite its excesses and draconian imposition of German law, did not carry any particular contemporary social stigma in the period leading up to the Second World War.
    D.

  7. #36
    ?

    Default Re: colored piping on cap, 1943...Sturbannfuehrer Bochmann

    Quote by N.C. Wyeth View Post
    Ben,

    It was a nice cap, wasn't it? I wonder what ever came of it? The last I recall, the fellow in Australia was seeking to sell, but I lost track of him . . .
    .
    Merry christmas Brad!
    Well, I wouldn't have called it a nice cap if you know what I mean. I never really felt comfortable with it at the time. Not because I didn't think it to be original, it was the opposite. The thought that it was all too real and connected with the camps turned my stomach. I know it's sounds silly because let's be honest, we're just as likely to have at least one cap in our collections, SS, Polizei, Heer or any number of other branches that may have once been owned by someone that commited a hidious act of brutality during their time but for me, that was besides the point. It was a KZ piped cap and something I didn't really feel comfortable owning so when it came to raising money to pay off debts, it was an easy choice at the time. That and the fact, I don't mind admitting, it was the one cap I knew to be totaly undervalued when I bought it and therefore worth a lot more when it came to selling it. I asked a hell of a lot of money for that cap, partially because I didn't really want to part with it and to be honest, I was surprised when that Australian popped up out of nowwhere to buy it. I'd never heard of him before or since so where that cap is now, I have no idea.
    One thing is for sure though, I could never afford to buy it back again.

  8. #37
    ?

    Default Re: colored piping on cap, 1943...Sturbannfuehrer Bochmann

    As an aside and a kind of additional explaination of what I'm trying to explain in the post above. One of the first Third Reich items I ever bought was a deactivated MP44. I owned it for about a month but had to sell it. It sounds weird but some relics give off a bad vibe if you know what I mean. Difficult to explain but they seem to have bad memories associated with them. Anyone ever felt that before?

  9. #38

    Default Re: colored piping on cap, 1943...Sturbannfuehrer Bochmann

    Thanks for the comments above. I would make two points: firstly, Peter Siegel was also a German male, actually, except in the minds of those SS bullies seen in the image above. Moreover, the SS in Bavaria in the era in which Dachau took hold was something other than an institution of German due process of law as it had unfolded for two centuries prior to 1933. Rather, the SS and the concentration camp system were an extraordinary perversion of the law to the ends of what the legal theorist Carl Schmitt had described as the essence of the political process, the identification of friend and foe and the imposition of a state of emergency. The Nazis found many new foes and the use of terror within a even more ambitious state of emergency was a major device to eradicate political opposition, even while proclaiming that such people were asocial, lazy, &c. And, especially after the progrom in November 1938, this generalization held true. My point, though, is the same as yours, I think, namely that I do not think the wear of this Waffenfarbe would have immediately meant something negative in many hearts and minds.

    On the other hand, the people I have known who were witnesses to the excesses of the SS especially in Austria in the years 1938-1943 related to me that any SS member was seen as something menacing and dangerous. At the same time, I have many acquaintances whose grand parents were also in the Waffen SS.

    In this connection, I have an acquaintance in Austria who as a teen age girl grew up in Mauthausen, and was witness to some truly staggering brutality of a random nature, to say nothing of the way that the guard personnel behaved among the civil population. She was a deeply devout Catholic and eventually told (in the 3d person) to get out of town to avoid trouble.
    damit, basta.

  10. #39

    Default Re: colored piping on cap, 1943...Sturbannfuehrer Bochmann

    Quote by BenVK View Post
    Merry christmas Brad!
    Well, I wouldn't have called it a nice cap if you know what I mean. I never really felt comfortable with it at the time. Not because I didn't think it to be original, it was the opposite. The thought that it was all too real and connected with the camps turned my stomach. I know it's sounds silly because let's be honest, we're just as likely to have at least one cap in our collections, SS, Polizei, Heer or any number of other branches that may have once been owned by someone that commited a hidious act of brutality during their time but for me, that was besides the point. It was a KZ piped cap and something I didn't really feel comfortable owning so when it came to raising money to pay off debts, it was an easy choice at the time. That and the fact, I don't mind admitting, it was the one cap I knew to be totaly undervalued when I bought it and therefore worth a lot more when it came to selling it. I asked a hell of a lot of money for that cap, partially because I didn't really want to part with it and to be honest, I was surprised when that Australian popped up out of nowwhere to buy it. I'd never heard of him before or since so where that cap is now, I have no idea.
    One thing is for sure though, I could never afford to buy it back again.
    most perhaps Ben you have done a mistake with your bad feeling abaut kz history of your cap,at some time brown Waffenfarbe was used by
    reconnaissance units in Waffen SS,

  11. #40

    Default Re: colored piping on cap, 1943...Sturbannfuehrer Bochmann

    Ben, I'd forgotten about your KZ visor--but I understand your reasons for letting it go. On the other hand, next to Pz, KZ is probably the next most-faked piping.

    Anyway, here is the SS-Pz owned by Doug O (hopefully, he won't mind me re-posting it here). It is a textbook Paul Kaps.

    As I always say, if Erel was the Cadillac, Kaps was the Rolls-Royce:
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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