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Deutschland Pre War HBT Tunic

Article about: The VT tunic of an Obersturmfuhrer of the Aufklarungs Abteteilung, Deutschland. Except for the sleeve eagle, the insignia has been modified to conform with the December, 1939, orders deletin

  1. #11

    Default Re: Deutschland Pre War HBT Tunic

    Bob,

    That is a great tunic and the insignia are fantastic. So, please do not misinterpret this question as sniping. However, isn't a machine-embroidered runic tab from a later period than the tunic? Granted, it could easily be a late-war replacement or a substitution resulting from advancement of an enlisted soldier to the officer ranks, but, if you were looking to illustrate a 100% pre-war tunic, wouldn't a hand-embroidered runic tab be more appropriate?

    Brad

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  3. #12

    Default Re: Deutschland Pre War HBT Tunic

    Quote by bwanek1 View Post
    Bob,

    That is a great tunic and the insignia are fantastic. So, please do not misinterpret this question as sniping. However, isn't a machine-embroidered runic tab from a later period than the tunic? Granted, it could easily be a late-war replacement or a substitution resulting from advancement of an enlisted soldier to the officer ranks, but, if you were looking to illustrate a 100% pre-war tunic, wouldn't a hand-embroidered runic tab be more appropriate?

    Brad
    As none of us were present when the insignia was updated to the December 1940 regulations, any answer must be only conjecture. As this is a field or work tunic, the owner may have opted to wear a less expensive insignia due to the wear out factor. When the human element becomes involved, who knows?
    BOB

    LIFE'S LOSERS NEVER LEARN FROM THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS.

  4. #13

    Default Re: Deutschland Pre War HBT Tunic

    Quote by BOB COLEMAN View Post
    As none of us were present when the insignia was updated to the December 1940 regulations, any answer must be only conjecture. As this is a field or work tunic, the owner may have opted to wear a less expensive insignia due to the wear out factor. When the human element becomes involved, who knows?
    Well said. To quote Rumsfeld quoting Herman Kahn: "the unknown unknowns" are powerful here. What that we could actually see a group of Waffen SS men and such in September 1940 and then in January 1941 to examine the change, if any worked by such regulations. I imagine we would be more than surprised at how much received wisdom would evaporate in the shock.

    Bob is right to highlight the factor of thrift in all of this.

    It is an impressive uniform.
    damit, basta.

  5. #14

    Default

    Hello all,

    Was there an order that demanded the change of the gothic script cuff title to the Latin script? If so, when?

    William Kramer
    Us and them - and after all were only ordinary men. Me, and you - God only knows its not what we would choose to do. Forward he cried from the rear, and the front rank died, and the general sat and the lines on the map moved from side to side.

    - US & THEM, THE DARK SIDE OF THE MOON - PINK FLOYD

  6. #15

    Default

    The order laying out the regulations for the field grey uniform for the Waffen-SS was issued on the 12th of December, 1939. Here's the relevant section.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Deutschland Pre War HBT Tunic  

  7. #16

    Default

    A rare Tunic Bob. An inaccuracy I must add is that the shoulder boards should be piped in Copper Brown (trying to find them maybe a big ask). Reconnaissance didn't use the Golden Yellow piping until the order of June 1942. Some SS Officers opted to affiliate with the Heere by wearing Wehrmacht boards, rather than the Copper Brown.

  8. #17

    Default

    I seem to remember reading that the golden yellow waffenfarbe for the Aufklaerungsabteilung was introduced in late 1940 along with the letter "A" for the shoulderboard. I'll have to check.

  9. #18

    Default

    Here is the document I was thinking of:
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Deutschland Pre War HBT Tunic  

  10. #19
    ?

    Default

    Quote by bwanek1 View Post
    Bob,

    That is a great tunic and the insignia are fantastic. So, please do not misinterpret this question as sniping. However, isn't a machine-embroidered runic tab from a later period than the tunic? Granted, it could easily be a late-war replacement or a substitution resulting from advancement of an enlisted soldier to the officer ranks, but, if you were looking to illustrate a 100% pre-war tunic, wouldn't a hand-embroidered runic tab be more appropriate?

    Brad
    At first glance, I too shared the same question. Certainly odd - as I always understood type of tab did not become available until MUCH later than 1940. Brings up the question - when did machine-embroidered tabs first become available, and were they widely used? I guess Bob's right, as it would be impossible to say when it could have been placed on the tunic.
    Last edited by Okeana; 12-21-2017 at 05:44 PM. Reason: corrected to clarify, topic at-hand are "Late-War" MACHINE-EMBROIDERED type tabs

  11. #20

    Default

    Thank you "d'alquen". My source of information has certainly been corrected.

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