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Dying SS Troops

Article about: Like Bob said, it is extremely difficult to judge anyone from this war; while we sit at our keyboards, in our safe surroundings, with a stomach full of food. It should not be our pleasure to

  1. #41

    Default Re: Dying SS Troops

    I remember reading years ago, that was not the reason why we let the Russians go into Berlin first, I cannot remember where i read it, whether it was online, or in a book, or a military journal why i was in the US Army, the reason was, to let the Russians slaughter as many Germans as they could, it did'nt matter if they were trying to surrender or not, the Russians had a shoot only order, that was until the camera crews started taking pics/video of the atrocities the Russins were doing.

    I believe it was General Patton that made that statement, weeks before his death, as General Patton himself had an ex-member of the SS on his German staff after the war.



    General Patton wanted to arm the Germans , and go into Russia and finish them off also, and that has been a proven fact.

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  3. #42

    Default Re: Dying SS Troops

    Quote by blackheart0866 View Post
    But that was allowed, and acceptable, and it happened a lot, just like the when the Americans were told to hold off, and allow the Russians to go in and take Berlin, because of the brutality that they would do upon the German people.

    There are stories of the German people wanting to surrender to the Americans, but were denied because of the US high command wanted the Russians to go into Berlin, and do what they do best, and at the time it was to slaughter each and every person they could, man,women, and child...

    General Patton has went on record about this, and how they ordered him to stand down, and allow the Russians to go in and take Berlin.
    Does anyone feel that if the Western Allies had been allowed to go into Berlin instead of the Soviets, the Germans would have been more inclined to surrender than fight it out?

  4. #43

    Default Re: Dying SS Troops

    I don't think there is any doubt about that Brian. At the end of the war, General Wenck kept a line open to the west that saved 250,000 Germans from Soviet imprisonment. Everyone wanted to surrender to the west.

    Jay
    Courage is not the lack of fear, it is the ability to take action, no matter the cost.

  5. #44

    Default Re: Dying SS Troops

    Quote by Pantothenic View Post
    I am on a mission to identify the dying / near death SS troops in the attached footage. Can someone please tell me what unit these men are from and if you know anything about the massacre. The uniforms I can't identify. It appears they have been stripped of rank and insignia. Warning: extremely graphic. US Army Footage Film - May 8, 1945


    Link is here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE4wY-NniQQ
    I know those in Eastern europe suffered greatly under the Nazis particularly the SS and this is typical footage of the somewhat inevitable vengeance i guess. But as human beings was it really necessary for the US authorities to film this kind of thing? The Americans didnt like it very much when Al Qaeda were parading their hostages and then beheading them on film to be broadcast the world over so why these German SS. That said when the Russians had finnished ransacking Berlin there were 90,000 recorded cases of rape of girls aged from just 8 years old to elderly women of 80! Thats just those who came forward for medical attention. This kind of behaviour is just something i could never agree with no matter what the circumstances. One old soldier i frequently used to chat with years ago used to often say "Lad, the human race is nowhere near civilised yet and i doubt if we ever will be". Regards, Tim.

  6. #45

    Default Re: Dying SS Troops

    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    Thanks for these interesting images. I think if one is concerned with the context of these unfortunate scenes, one does well to consider overall the level of death and destruction in central Europe of the final year of the war. This generalization applies especially in those areas that had perhaps seen less war in the years 1939-1942, that is, when the SS extended German power into the rest of central and eastern Europe. The Czechs also unleashed a wave of violence against the SS in the former Protektorat which was fairly brutal, to be sure. The story of the SS in the Protektorat and also in Slovakia is more than the sum of these images, to be sure.

    But one must mention out of balance the other episodes of slaughter that unfolded in the final phases of the war. There is little utility in looking at the past as a score sheet in a sport's match of blame and guilt. Most everyone does this thing, surely, but I remain quite shocked by the explosion of violence at war's end, of which these men were the victims (along with millions of others in 1944-1945), but also at an earlier time were likely in another role, surely. The Soviets replied in kind to what the SS had meted out to them in years previous. A simple example of historical cause and effect.

    These images are fairly accurate depictions of the horror of war in central Europe that gets lost on these websites far too frequently.
    To follow up, you had best deepen yourself also in the relationship of the Czechs and the Habsburgs in the monarchy, as well as the the interwar period in which the conflict of nationalities in central and eastern Europe entered into a new, more violent phase culminating in the second world war. Further, you do yourself a favor to consider in detail the nature of German rule in the Protektorat and even in the Tiso state (Slovakia) to say nothing generally of the character of war in eastern and southern Europe in the second world war and its aftermath.

    If you do not understand these issues I have outlined above, then this gruesome episode stands out of its context for you, and this discussion then deserves to be located elsewhere.

    The past is a foreign land, made more confusing by the diminishing knowledge in the present about same as well as the emotional reaction caused by these images via the computer in a present suffocated in growing violence and its symbolic meaning. The answer is more knowledge versus speculation as to what might have been had x happened and not y. This latter phenomenon is a sign of the general contemporary incapacity to think about the past.

    The issue is: these events happened, and then the response is: a.) what is the order in which they happened?: b.) what caused same and what were the consequences?; c.) what does it mean? When you put c.) before a.) and b.) then you are not going to get closer to the truth. The a.) and the b.) take more energy than you are willing to give it, and so then the c.) is usually wrong or superficial. The fact is that in many ways, the second world war has not really ended, and people do not adequately have a means to explain this phenomenon. The day's headlines are closely linked with the cataclysm of war, especially in a world headed likely to more war. This all requires not more feeling but more thought.

    What you also do not see are the multiple instances in which the SS was itself the motor of such violence in other locales, beginning many years before these images were made.

    The understanding of the past today is the use of victim hood to further nationalistic ends. In central and eastern Europe, the knowledge about contemporary history is in the process of catching up with perhaps western Europe, especially in a place like Czechia or Slovakia, or Hungary and elsewhere, where the impact of the war is still pretty tangible. I know, because I spend a lot of time there.

    If you have any doubts about what kind of organization the SS really was, listen to Himmler's speeches on line and/or read them, and then all of this will make more sense to you.

    Or, if one here is interested in a contemporary political agenda that is incompatible with the rather more circumscribed and modest goals of this site, then you can post on all the other sites with just this contemporary political agenda.

    sapere aude.
    damit, basta.

  7. #46

    Default Re: Dying SS Troops

    Some disturbing images of Estonain W-SS men being executed by Chech partisans. The protagonist is Ritterkreutzträger Paul Maitla (front left on the middle pic). Those who didn't fight back, were allowed to smoke their last cigarettes...
    http://wehrmacht.wehrmacht.pri.ee/fotod/2/9/9.html

  8. #47
    ?

    Default Re: Dying SS Troops

    Thanks for the interesting images and link
    Regards

    Matt

  9. #48
    ?

    Default Re: Dying SS Troops

    As you say Maitla is the Sturmbannfuhrer smoking the cigarette in the third photo, a sad end for a brave man.
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  10. #49

    Default Re: Dying SS Troops

    I am stunned that someone, then or now, can stand and film someone in pain/dying without helping them. I was as dumbstruck watching this as I was when I saw film footage on the news of someone drowning in flood water, you put the camera down and help.
    Regards to all, Simon.

  11. #50

    Default Re: Dying SS Troops

    Quote by shadowwolf View Post
    I am stunned that someone, then or now, can stand and film someone in pain/dying without helping them. I was as dumbstruck watching this as I was when I saw film footage on the news of someone drowning in flood water, you put the camera down and help.
    Regards to all, Simon.
    Throughtout history theres always someone, whether its a writer, artist, photographer or cameraman that will document this sort of thing instead of helping the people suffering, if the people who filmed this didnt, we wouldnt be having this interesting discusion right now and perhaps changing peoples opinions on warfare for the better by getting them to think about what its really like, I know that my opinions have changed.

    Thanks

    Danny

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