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Earth-brown SS-VT uniform

Article about: The attached are in no order whatsoever. The Eskimo cap cover with the Hoheitszeichen is an image of my cap that someone has altered....go figure. Who can match the images to the headings in

  1. #51
    Fultz
    ?

    Default Re: Earth-brown SS-VT uniform

    The price list I included is for the Allgemeine SS, not for the SSTV and SSVT or concentration camps. It says thus on the document.
    I have never seen price lists for the other organizations in the original, hence my query there.
    It might just be relevant that in the color plates to the Orgsbuch (1937), the grey uniform is listed as the service dress of the SS-VT, nobody else (and the Sig-runes are present); whereas the black uniform appears (a) as the SS-VT Paradeanzug, and (b) as the Allgm-SS service and parade uniform. Which, combined with your price list, might lead to the deduction that as of summer 1938 wear of the grey uniform, previously only for VT, was extended to the entire SS (except, apparently, for A-SS part-timers).

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  3. #52

    Default Re: Earth-brown SS-VT uniform

    Quote by Fultz View Post
    It might just be relevant that in the color plates to the Orgsbuch (1937), the grey uniform is listed as the service dress of the SS-VT, nobody else (and the Sig-runes are present); whereas the black uniform appears (a) as the SS-VT Paradeanzug, and (b) as the Allgm-SS service and parade uniform. Which, combined with your price list, might lead to the deduction that as of summer 1938 wear of the grey uniform, previously only for VT, was extended to the entire SS (except, apparently, for A-SS part-timers).

    I think you are right, in fact. As I collect black uniforms of 08/15 Allgemeine SS personages, I was always mystified never in fact to find grey uniforms for Standarten btl and company leadership, whereas there are more than one example of the latter still in black. I do think that certain full time officers of the Allgemeine SS cadre got a grey uniform as I have seen examples in pictures. But such are much more rare than either Waffen SS or black Allgemeine SS uniforms.

    I personally have cleaved to the black uniforms, because it is easier for me to tell if one is real or not than with the grey uniforms, especially in the army style.

    von Lukacs has what is likely a nice Allgemeine SS uniform for Plauen for sale for only USD 15,000 but which lacks the honor cuff title, which, in fact, may never have been present.

    Happy textiles to all seekers of truth.
    damit, basta.

  4. #53

    Default Re: Earth-brown SS-VT uniform

    Quote by Fultz View Post
    It might just be relevant that in the color plates to the Orgsbuch (1937), the grey uniform is listed as the service dress of the SS-VT, nobody else (and the Sig-runes are present); whereas the black uniform appears (a) as the SS-VT Paradeanzug, and (b) as the Allgm-SS service and parade uniform. Which, combined with your price list, might lead to the deduction that as of summer 1938 wear of the grey uniform, previously only for VT, was extended to the entire SS (except, apparently, for A-SS part-timers).
    In the first edition of 1936 the grey for the SSVT uniforms is Hechtgrau or something, but not erdgrau as it actually exists.
    By the 2d 1937 edition it remains thus (grey of some kind) in the 3d edition and those of 1938, the uniform is plainly field grey.

    pp. 81-124 of the 1st volume of Beaver treat the subject of earth grey and field grey uniforms in their first versions.
    I do not own the volume on concentration camp uniforms.

    I do not own the 1936 edition, but all the other editions of the Orgbuch. The appreciation of the Euro or dollar value of said books floors me.

    There is not enough documentary evidence on all of this to solve all the riddles.
    damit, basta.

  5. #54

    Default Re: Earth-brown SS-VT uniform

    Apropos the endurance of the black uniform in wartime, which we have discussed before. Gauleiter Eigruber with Heini H in the medical block at Mauthausen.....a deeply creepy place to which I have been recently. Eigrubererl was a big profiteer of slave labor, as was good ole' Heini H. As a matter of daily things sartorial, I imagine that Eigruber wore his Galuleiter suit, but in his SS role he is so dressed. Oberoesterreich in the NS time has its own, interesting history.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    damit, basta.

  6. #55
    Fultz
    ?

    Default Re: Earth-brown SS-VT uniform

    Re the Orgsbuch: reprints in German and English translations still don't cost much, at least here- no collector's value, but a basic reference.

    In fact the 3rd/37 is available for download free- I don't know what German law is, but in the USA an act of Congress expressly abolished copyright protection for NSDAP publications.

    -----------------------

    Grey uniform- obviously various full-time Hauptamt personnel of the A-SS wore it. Perhaps the part-timers simply regarded it as an unjustifiable expense?


    In the '38 edition, is the uniform captioned as VT, or more broadly?

    --------------------

    BTW, am I correct in believing that the last occasion where the black uniform was mandatory was the 1940 Berlin victory parade?

  7. #56

    Default Re: Earth-brown SS-VT uniform

    I have the digitalized one, too, but find it hard to use.

    In the third edition of 1937, the field grey uniform is referred to as "Verfueg Truppe" It is only in the final edition of 1943 that the term "Waffen SS" is used.

    I collect Nazi books, and follow the prices.

    I am certain the black uniform was worn well beyond 1940, in fact.
    damit, basta.

  8. #57

    Default Re: Earth-brown SS-VT uniform

    I think one needed permission after a said date to wear the grey uniform in certain billets and certain kinds of ranks.

    Further, stringency in textiles was a central tenet of the Nazi war economy from well before 1 September 1939, hence the restrictions on uniforms grew out of this phenomenon and later out of the desire of the SS at arms types to propagate a class society within the SS itself. This was a major phenomenon which troubled Heini H a lot, as you can read in Robert Koehl's book on the organizational and structural history of the SS.

    This latter point is well interpreted in Arendt, too.
    damit, basta.

  9. #58
    Fultz
    ?

    Default Re: Earth-brown SS-VT uniform

    I am certain the black uniform was worn well beyond 1940, in fact.
    Yes, there is plenty of photo evidence of that. What I'm asking was if June 40 in Berlin was the last formation/parade/cermony/function where the black was required, rather than optional.

  10. #59

    Default Re: Earth-brown SS-VT uniform

    Quote by Fultz View Post
    Yes, there is plenty of photo evidence of that. What I'm asking was if June 40 in Berlin was the last formation/parade/cermony/function where the black was required, rather than optional.
    A fine question for one our readers here to answer, nicht wahr?

    Does someone have the documentary evidence on this event, which is well recorded in You Tube and other sources?

    Elsewhere here we have included many, many images of the black uniform in wear in subsequent years, but not the documentary evidence to this effect. The files of the regional branches and echelons of the Allgemeine SS took a beating in the war, and are not well preserved. But if you look on the Bundesarchiv site, you get an idea of where to look. But there is not much, as near as I can see from the electronic finding aids.

    I sold Bob Coleman an SA officers uniform from Oberoesttereich with an order for an Appell from the summer of 1944. This document included the uniform of the day. I do not think the Allgemeine SS men in the Berlin Standarten got access to a grey uniform for Apsperrdienst, which was part of the roles and missions of the Allgemeine SS. Such orders are included in the Spronk/Saris book.

    Happy imponderables of the 20th century to all who might read these lines.

    I note that the enclosed image is from the Sportpalast in September 1942. I do not have the impression that there is an un uniform appearance in the Allgemeine SS units also employed here in the Absperdienst. Somewhere someone ordered these men to appear at this locale with a document that contained the uniform of the day, but if you have this document, you are a far better man than am I, of such I am certain.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    damit, basta.

  11. #60
    ?

    Default Re: Earth-brown SS-VT uniform

    when I had the brown cap , they all said it was just a DAF, now i wonder?

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