Emedals SS Enlisted Man's cap for discussion

[bsiwula1]

I do not wish to muddy up the current discussion on the SS officers Welhausen cap, which is a great thread; and I am glad it was revived as it is informative in it's own right. I do however wish to introduce this particular cap which shares similarities in condition and to me seems to be potentially from the same collection, and if both are deemed real or at least possibly real perhaps had conservation work done by the same person? In any event this cap imo has issues as well. A few points of concern are the sig runes under the sweatshield, they seem irregular shaped and non symmetrical, the white piping similar to the officer cap seems rather loosely woven/fuzzy, and for me the most concerning element is the vulcanfiber visors on each..they/their appearance does not match the condition of the rest of the caps (top side is dull and has a low gloss, on the reverse it has a irregular looking underside-less resin to the reinforced fiber compared to the majority of visors I've seen). Note I'm not bringing this up to dispute any ones opinion, or take away from what is an already informative topic. But as stated my suspicion is these caps are possibly related and perhaps information can be gleamed from their existence-doppelgangers? I realize in quality and construction/production an
private purchase officers cap cannot be compared to an EM version, nor is that my intent. But it would support the notion that this/these could be cottage industry well made reproductions and or well preserved and or conserved period examples. Just a thought. Best regards.

Brian

Emedals sold on September 20th thereabouts



Officers cap discussed here

Waffen SS Visor Cap

[Friedrich-Berthold]

No mud. It is a fake, or, at least, the tag is a fake. This species of a cap is well faked.

[Arran]

F-B is right- this is a VERY dangerous copy. I also don't like the lack of finish on the underside of the visor, among other things...

[Friedrich-Berthold]

I rather think the whole cap is fake, although the lining is very close. And what I write is based just on the pictures.

I own a dozen or so of these caps and have followed their evolution, which has been accelerated through my pictures and
the recycling of a heap of these found in Praha or Brno or wherever in the Tschechei.

We have been over this topic often. It does not question that there are skilled fakers who make very expert fakes.
It is not rocket science. Ryan in the other thread is not a beginner was my point there.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

F-B is right- this is a VERY dangerous copy. I also don't like the lack of finish on the underside of the visor, among other things...

Thank you, friend, I appreciate it. There are very subtle fakes of the ca. 1938 enlisted and or leader cap on offer, and these routinely fool lots of
people, including experts here. I do not participate in these threads, save in an instance like this and I thank Arran for the support.
Usually the lacquer on the reverse of the visor with the RZM/SS is a pumpkin colored glossy finish that is very distinct, at least
in the Form III or Form IV variant, to use the NSDAP nomenclature.

And though the piping can well be fuzzy, the piping here is blue white, which is usually not a good sign.

The white piping takes on the environmental dirt and such and gets a slight yellowish dingyness to the thing, even when
the cap is nearly unworn. The white wool picks up a person's body odor and or what comes out of their ears.

[Arran]

Indeed, the cap body and lining are fake, with the addition of some (possibly) original bits, like insignia and chin strap. The visor is likely original, but from a civil cap...

[Friedrich-Berthold]

The badges may well be real. All of this is my wild a$$ guess from looking at the pictures, and I may be wrong, but Arran and I zero in on the same traits,
and I do not want to divulge 100% of the flaws in this case. The more we post images, the better these things get. I am told that they come from Asia,
but I do not know that for certain. It would stand to reason, I guess. Or they come from the dark side of the moon. Equally plausible, no?
We have been through this drill multiple times with exactly this kind of cap.

[bsiwula1]

Thank you both gentleman for confirming my suspicion. I was searching about looking for a sweatshield like the one seen on the Welhausen cap when I came across this example, it sold for roughly 3,800$ usd. This cap and the Welhausen cap were sold/discussed roughly around the same time with similar descriptive listings. I'm not trying to imply that one is fake because the other is fake either, nor intentionally re hashing old subjects; apologies if it seems that way. I'd rather love to see the Welhausen cap proved or disproved as authentic, as I too hate to see a potentially genuine item discarded to the bin w/o propper vetting. FB please relay to your friend that I hope he doesn't see this discussion as an attack. As you know us here, and that we respect each other and everyone's input and new voices especially educated ones are always a welcome addition. These threads are so much better than the fake or real topics we see often anyhow, and much can still be learned in the process of discussion. Thanks once more for the time and input. Kindest regards.

Brian

Listings for each cap via emedals

https://www.emedals.com/europe/germa...by-w-welhausen

https://www.emedals.com/europe/germa...-ss-rzm-tagged

[Friedrich-Berthold]

"FB please relay to your friend that I hope he doesn't see this discussion as an attack. As you know us here, and that we respect each other and everyone's input and new voices especially educated ones are always a welcome addition. These threads are so much better than the fake or real topics we see often anyhow, and much can still be learned in the process of discussion. Thanks once more for the time and input. Kindest regards.

Brian"


Sir, please tell him yourself in the thread on the Wellhausen cap. Again, I have not examined any of these things in hand.
I do not want to be drawn into cat fights as has happened countless times. There are others on this site who have repeatedly failed to identify
the sinister grade fake black cap. It has happened easily a half dozen times. I peeped up and then got kicked in the head by these persons for being impertinent, and
how could I have made them look so foolish and so on. As one calls into the forest, so comes the echo would be my rejoinder.
And, I can always be in error, mind you. But in twenty years I have saved thousands of images and I have collected
these things for fifty or so years. Maybe forty eight or so.
Really, what is in it for me, I ask you?
I specialize in a very narrow, but very contested field.
Do tell Ryan yourself what you have written. He is a sound person and he will add to our work.
Of course, you can disregard what I write. Others do. You can, too.

I am grateful for Arran's expertise and his solidarity.

[bsiwula1]

Indeed, the cap body and lining are fake, with the addition of some (possibly) original bits, like insignia and chin strap. The visor is likely original, but from a civil cap...

This is a very scary thought indeed! Not to imply that they would.. but think of the skill of BenVk and Spandau (Tony) for those of us that can remember their handy work. There are still artisans left in the world capable of such feats. Even Helen with her homade caps, how quickly her work and quality progressed over her time here. How many of her caps are being unknowingly traded on the market these days? As the saying goes locks will keep the honest people out. Best regards to all.

Brian