Found This SS Uniform in an ATTIC!!

[aurelius180]

Glad am I to own thus this Montur, which is apparently of the year 1936-7, as near as I can determine. But it, too, was the cast off property of a veteran's family, and only came to light last year. I did not find it in an attic, and I had to pay cash money for it, sadly. The league of ankle biters and otherwise disenfranchised who spill their bile on these sites had nothing good to say about this, either. It has repairs to it that are not very adroit, but which I imagine were done at the time or someone put the insignia back on, but I actually think not. I also don't care at all. I also cleaned this uniform, as well, but very carefully. It is not mint, mind you, but it has great character. I can only image what its original owner would say were he to confront me.

They all can't be mint and as long as they're taken care of going forward that's all that really matters. I'm sure you have plenty of mint ones anyway!

[Friedrich-Berthold]

They all can't be mint and as long as they're taken care of going forward that's all that really matters. I'm sure you have plenty of mint ones anyway!

Thank you. I have more than one of these uniforms and caps. I worked in the U.S. Army museum system as a young pup and try my best to take care of these things, though the humidity control thing is somewhat beyond me.

[aurelius180]

Thank you. I have more than one of these uniforms and caps. I worked in the U.S. Army museum system as a young pup and try my best to take care of these things, though the humidity control thing is somewhat beyond me.

My wife and I have admired your extensive collection on here numerous times. Also, perhaps the "league of ankle biters" are simply jealous of said collection.

[N.C. Wyeth]

The chart here makes clear the role of the Reichsfuehrung SS. These charts are from 1937-8.
By the height of the war, the reach of the organization was far greater, of course, granted the growth of the SS. The SS Oberabschnitte were not unlike the Wehrkreise of the army.

Yes indeed, the charts are a great help - Thanks. It becomes all the more obvious to me how befuddling it can be to attempt to make explanation for the task of the Reichsfuehrung SS more transparent and elementary . . .

In effort to further elucidate, and instill additional luminosity for those of the layman genus here, I found this about the organization from previous discussion elsewhere:

The Reichsführung-SS consisted of all SS-officers assigned to Himmler's personal staff, as such recognizable by the RFSS cuffband or the all-white one. If we equal the Reichsfuhrung-SS to Himmler in person, then the whole SS empire was under his command, of course. Its main offices were:
- RSHA
- WVHA
- Hauptamt SS-Gericht
- Dienststelle Heissmeyer
- RuSHA
- SS-Personalhauptamt
- SS-Führungshauptamt
- Hauptamt Orpo

Really quite simple after all - wouldn't you agree?

Something still troubles me about the idea of such a nice quality band placed on such a low rank of uniform . . . without a doubt, it is the ingrained thought that EM quality bands belong on EM grade uniforms, and Officer quality bands belong on Officer grade uniforms . . . which, in this case, as everyone seems to agree, would not be so simple to say. Taking into account what I have previously mentioned, would it be possible that an enlisted man could be entitled to wear such a band? Certainly this organization was not limited to only Officers, and it would not be out of the ordinary to see an enlisted man bearing the title . . .

[Friedrich-Berthold]

My wife and I have admired your extensive collection on here numerous times. Also, perhaps the "league of ankle biters" are simply jealous of said collection.

Dear Colleague, thank you. You are very kind. By "ankle biters" I surely mean the jealous, but also seized of a singular aggressive trait linked to little brains, all of which make them prone to have many airy opinions about things utterly beyond their comprehension. There are also advanced collectors and dealers whose singular joy resides in chasing others out of their hunting grounds. My goal has been to enable others to understand and collect this material. Young Mr. Devin should be encouraged, I think. Thanks for the intervention.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Yes indeed, the charts are a great help - Thanks. It becomes all the more obvious to me how befuddling it can be to attempt to make explanation for the task of the Reichsfuehrung SS more transparent and elementary . . .

In effort to further elucidate, and instill additional luminosity for those of the layman genus here, I found this about the organization from previous discussion elsewhere:

The Reichsführung-SS consisted of all SS-officers assigned to Himmler's personal staff, as such recognizable by the RFSS cuffband or the all-white one. If we equal the Reichsfuhrung-SS to Himmler in person, then the whole SS empire was under his command, of course. Its main offices were:
- RSHA
- WVHA
- Hauptamt SS-Gericht
- Dienststelle Heissmeyer
- RuSHA
- SS-Personalhauptamt
- SS-Führungshauptamt
- Hauptamt Orpo

Really quite simple after all - wouldn't you agree?

Something still troubles me about the idea of such a nice quality band placed on such a low rank of uniform . . . without a doubt, it is the ingrained thought that EM quality bands belong on EM grade uniforms, and Officer quality bands belong on Officer grade uniforms . . . which, in this case, as everyone seems to agree, would not be so simple to say. Taking into account what I have previously mentioned, would it be possible that an enlisted man could be entitled to wear such a band? Certainly this organization was not limited to only Officers, and it would not be out of the ordinary to see an enlisted man bearing the title . . .

The Reichsfuehrung SS came to comprise quite a few missions and functions, and surely had a large liaison organization with a large enlisted cadre.

I have seen sufficient examples of lower rank uniforms with showy insignia if the uniform was for walking out, i.e. Class A.

I also think the cuff title was only made in alu wire by the time this one was issued. The Allgem. SS had phased out the silken or cotton thread cuff titles by 1938 or so.

The RFSS comprised more or less the upper echelons of this chart.

Also, if you carefully read the rank lists, there were a large number of officers loosely associated with the RFSS who were in part time billets, and surely there were some enlisted personnel for their care and feeding, too. That is, office people, drivers, orderlies, and such persons in their number, which could be quite large in Nazi organizations.

As a person with four decades in military life, I know how many additional people go along with persons of rank, although such headquarters and staffs were smaller in the era, but, then again, might well have had additional personnel not had in a NATO army.

I think the newly found Montur is picco bello and all the badges make fine sense to me, in fact, but to each his own.

The person who has received so much attention, much of which has added to the value of his property, also owes some of us a couple of words of thanks, too.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Amusing to me how the mere mention of 'SS' gets so many up on their little hind legs and baring their teeth.

The central truth of our lives and a source of irritation to most. All of this notwithstanding, our goal here is to add more truth and to subtract from the heap of nonsense. I have also enclosed an image of hind legs of a particular sort.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

This collar patch of grey thread was replaced in mid 1937 by the alu variety of a trend towards same in the Allgem. SS. Which is to say, there was a trend to make the insignia more showy, which collided, of course, with war time. But I can well imagine a person serving on a staff having the desire to have a nice uniform, even as drab as this war time one, and also thus having access to insignia that others did not, or re using his good insignia from another uniform. This all makes perfect sense to me, at least, but others can come to a different conclusion.

The extra cap, for instance, the one from a hatter or hat factory, was a normal consumer item aimed at all ranks, and its cost was, contrary to what some think, hardly as costly as Wilkins imagines.

The goal of said cap was to give the soldier something special within his means. I can imagine that the nicer cuff title was similar in the cosmos of a person here who was a junior NCO.

[history-buff1944]

just wait,...a real expert will chime in and these guys will hop on the wagon like long lost cousins

Just like im going through with one detractor on my Mauser rifle. BTW--would you know a Mauser collector by the name Mr. Chilton? He lives near Houston. He took a long look at my Mauser which has been brow-beaten by one other here--and this guy loves my rifle. He has over 1,000 in his collection.

Its because of knowing Gents like Mr. Chilton--is one of the big reasons why I never listen to only one ""experts"" opinion. I told him about the person here and I cant print the words he used or I would be banned from the site. :-))

[history-buff1944]

Thanks for your valued contribution

Nick

- - Updated - -

The insignia doesnt look bad to me

Nick

It was valuable to me based on a past history of it happening to me here as well as on waf. So far, both of those who bashed what I had or have--have been proven wrong.