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Getty images Ullstein photo of SD NCOs in helmet

Article about: no comment about decal.

  1. #21


    They might fit very well in one of Hieronymus Bosch's finer works...

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  3. #22


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    Quote by Larboard View Post
    They might fit very well in one of Hieronymus Bosch's finer works...
    So right you are, colleague.
    damit, basta.

  4. #23


    Quote by Wagriff View Post
    I was wondering that myself. They could be any number of small side arms-the Mauser Hsc, 1934 Mauser, or even one of the small Czech CZ's, Walther PP or PPK's, J.P. Sauers, etc. No real way to tell for sure exactly.
    CZ not likely in 1936, most Walther PPs have a mag extension for a finger rest which this does not seem to have, Maybe a Mauser Hsc, not a 1934 Mauser.

    I think it is a DWM 7.65 mm. I have one & the police holster matching the holster in the photo.

  5. #24


    True on the mag extensions, although the flat bottom mag could be in the pistol and finger extension mag in the spare mag pocket rather than in the pistol.

    I'm looking at pics of a DWM 7.65 mag bottom and it doesn't have the "button" like these do (spot welded mag bottom?). I think it's quite possible that they are Walther pistols but with the flat bottom mag installed?

    Mauser HSc has no floorplate release button in the mag, so that's out.

    CZ27 (excluded already) has no floorplate release button in the mag.

    The Sauer 38H does have a release button and also has an indent below the toe of the stamped floorplate, which I'm not seeing in the pics, so I think it's ruled out (unless earlier ones had flat bottoms?) then they could be Sauer 38H.

    Pic of a typical Sauer 38H mag bottom from the internet;

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    One of the reasons finger extensions aren't always seen on Walthers (especially late war but that doesn't apply here) is because it's not a good thing to have on a combat pistol... not that the PP is especially a combat pistol, but the reasoning is that if you hit the deck hard and the finger mag extension gets slammed down hard on something that doesn't give, the plastic/bakelite will break, probably rendering the mag and thereby the gun suddenly useless in a combat situation. The non finger extension mag is much more combat worthy. So, sometime it was used as the spare mag and the tougher flat bottom mag in the pistol at the ready.

    If there's another medium sized pistol I'm missing that has a floorplate release button, it could be that?

    They hadn't invaded too many countries yet at this point, but... here's some others that are out.

    FN 1910/1922 has a welded mag bottom, a la 1911.

    Femaru has a very pronounced metal finger extension.

    I think this really only leaves the Walther PP/Sauer 38H?

    An expert on this organization should be able to tell us what their preference was? But from I've seen over the years, it seems many Nazi Party organizations, SA/SS/RSHA had a very strong liking/preference for the Walther PP/PPk pistols.
    Last edited by Larboard; 01-05-2016 at 10:01 PM.

  6. #25


    Could the reversed decals be present because the fellows are Geheime Staatspolizei and actually wearing Orpo helmets?
    Just a thought, as I don't know the regulations regarding the wearing of helmets by Gestapo members who were not SS members in 1936. I know later on, Sicherheitspolizei wore medium duty, civic type M34 helmets with correct SS decals during the war years.

    Also, they could be wearing police helmets with the Sig-rune covering the police eagle decal only. This is a feature found on early war 4th SS-Pol. Div. member helmets.

  7. #26


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ID:	921611No decals here and no holster, either.

    - - ------- - -

    I have exactly one, authentic black SS helmet, and in view of the decalcomania mania, I will leave it at that.
    damit, basta.

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