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GRENZ - POLIZEI Uniform Ensemble

Article about: please show inside of nice-looking tunic. the cuffband does not look pre-45 to me based on this foto. thanks for the post. by Bob Hritz I do not see anything that gives me concern, so far. I

  1. #1

    Default GRENZ - POLIZEI Uniform Ensemble

    Gentlemen,

    I have an antique dealer/picker who frequents my shop that came across the following.

    He has asked me to inquire online concerning it's authenticity and perhaps a generalization of it's history. Of course, an estimation of it's value will be his next request...

    In any case, he is a nice old guy, and a good customer, so I told him that I would be honored to do so.

    This is the alleged provenance story from the family that he bought it from "Uncle Herb sent my father this German uniform along with other souvenirs in 1945. We had to move Dad to a nursing home in January of 2008 and found the uniform in a box when cleaning out the house."

    I am numb when it concerns stuff like this (I collect strictly Soviet items) so I would appreciate any facts, opinions, or otherwise from you, my knowledgeable and professional associates...

    Many thanks in advance.
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    .

    Fellow collectors are NOT adversaries to be bested...

    ☭ "Ричик, я не понимаю, почему, почему ты тратишь деньги на эти вещи!" ☭

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  3. #2

    Default Re: GRENZ - POLIZEI Uniform Ensemble

    ...................................
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    .

    Fellow collectors are NOT adversaries to be bested...

    ☭ "Ричик, я не понимаю, почему, почему ты тратишь деньги на эти вещи!" ☭

  4. #3
    ?

    Default Re: GRENZ - POLIZEI Uniform Ensemble

    Looks good to me, Richie!
    Regards,
    Dimas

    my Skype: warrelics

  5. #4

    Default Re: GRENZ - POLIZEI Uniform Ensemble

    Hi Richie, I have been typing an answer to you a couple of times, then got sidetracked by PM's which needed quick attention.

    OK, I see a few problems here. Here are my concerns:

    The SS Grenz-Polizei was formed in 1933 but was disbanded by October 1941. They wore insignia in the manner of the Allgemeine SS, ie single shoulder strap. Here we have a tunic set up with Waffen SS style insignia but badged to the SD. The SD was not authorised to wear these style shoulder straps (nor tresse on the collar) they wore Allgemeine SS type straps until Jan '42 then black Police style straps from then onwards.

    Cuff title and SD raute are both suspect.

    Rank pip placement on shoulder straps is odd.

    The belt with just RZM/SS marking and no contract code. Also get the buckle checked out on the buckles forum.

    The tunic itself looks Ok up to now, but pics from the inside would be nice.

    Breeches look OK.

    Cap: these are very very rare and need careful examination.

    Cheers, Ade.

  6. #5

    Default Re: GRENZ - POLIZEI Uniform Ensemble

    Thanks for the replies Gentleman. I'll try to get more images from the owner. He is not very computer savvy, and does not do forums. For now I'll tell him that as of this time, I have received mixed feelings about it.

    If I had my way, I'd photograph it myself on a torso/head form and also show more comprehensive images of the insignia and other important attributes. I'll ask him if it would be possible to bring the set to me for this purpose.

    In any case, Soviet stuff is already a bad enough minefield - but this SS stuff would indeed drive me to drink wondering.

    Better thee than me...
    .

    Fellow collectors are NOT adversaries to be bested...

    ☭ "Ричик, я не понимаю, почему, почему ты тратишь деньги на эти вещи!" ☭

  7. #6

    Default Re: GRENZ - POLIZEI Uniform Ensemble

    I assume the bang is the hefty price tag that this stuff (good or bad) usually commands?
    .

    Fellow collectors are NOT adversaries to be bested...

    ☭ "Ричик, я не понимаю, почему, почему ты тратишь деньги на эти вещи!" ☭

  8. #7
    ?

    Default Re: GRENZ - POLIZEI Uniform Ensemble

    Great looking outfit I cant see anything wrong with it. In regards to the comments about the insignia I am posted three images that all show shoulder
    straps of waffen-SS pattern being worn by members of the SD. The allgemeine pattern shoulder straps were phased out in 1939 and replaced with the pattern
    on this tunic. One image of the SD personnel in the vehicle show rarely found transitional period all in one photo. The fellow in the front seat is wearing allgemeine shoulder straps the other are with the waffen-SS type. Also the broken line piping has not been phased out on collar tabs and collar. Also note the NCO collar tress was worn by SD personnel until January 1942. At that time NCO collar tress was dropped and police pattern shoulder boards became regulation for the SD. One other thing, the position of the rank pip on the shoulder strap is consistent with the images shown here.

    My two cents for what it's worth.
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  9. #8

    Default Re: GRENZ - POLIZEI Uniform Ensemble

    Hi, thanks that is good useful info! I had a feeling I had seen a pic in the past, in fact it is the one of the guys in the vehicle, but I could not find it. So I thought it safer to take the info quoted in Jack Angolia's book on SS insignia.

    Cheers, Ade.

  10. #9
    ?

    Default Re: GRENZ - POLIZEI Uniform Ensemble

    I have some pictures where the enlisted personel of Grenz Polizei is being worn Allgemeine SS type shoulderstraps, but both sides, and NCO's being worn a standard slip on straps.
    Quote by Adrian Stevenson View Post
    Hi Richie, I have been typing an answer to you a couple of times, then got sidetracked by PM's which needed quick attention.

    OK, I see a few problems here. Here are my concerns:

    The SS Grenz-Polizei was formed in 1933 but was disbanded by October 1941. They wore insignia in the manner of the Allgemeine SS, ie single shoulder strap. Here we have a tunic set up with Waffen SS style insignia but badged to the SD. The SD was not authorised to wear these style shoulder straps (nor tresse on the collar) they wore Allgemeine SS type straps until Jan '42 then black Police style straps from then onwards.

    Cuff title and SD raute are both suspect.

    Rank pip placement on shoulder straps is odd.

    The belt with just RZM/SS marking and no contract code. Also get the buckle checked out on the buckles forum.

    The tunic itself looks Ok up to now, but pics from the inside would be nice.

    Breeches look OK.

    Cap: these are very very rare and need careful examination.

    Cheers, Ade.
    Regards,
    Dimas

    my Skype: warrelics

  11. #10

    Default Re: GRENZ - POLIZEI Uniform Ensemble

    I do not see anything that gives me concern, so far. I am not a hat expert, but I do like this hat very much.

    Bob Hritz

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