Help with KZ items

**Killroy** · 03-05-2011, 10:02 AM

I have had a hard time keeping this to myself because it is still in the works but I am going to need some help I have figured out. I will soon with all things going well be able to veiw and with luck purchase what has been described to me as a hoad of items liberated from a KZ camp by a US vet. The man is 88 years old and I know this is going to be the real deal. Of the insignia that will be there I know most of but one piece that was described to me I am at a loss for and need help with. This piece was described to me as a portrate of Hitler signed. Also there is suppose to be a outline of Hitler made of some type of metal on top of a wooden backing with engraving. Can anyone advise what these items may be or a rough value on what they might go for? I do not like to go into something like this blind and I do not want to disrespect a vet by "stealing" the items from him. Thank you all in advance for your help.

Regards

Jeff

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 03-05-2011 10:02 AM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Adrian Stevenson** · 03-05-2011, 11:27 AM

The Hitler plaque sounds like a common commercially bought patriotic item. Several have been shown in the Artworks forum. They are not worth a huge amount. About £45 here.

Signed items are fraught with danger. I would advise you run any past forum member "Woske" as he knows what he is looking at in regards to these.

Cheers, Ade.

**Killroy** · 03-05-2011, 09:30 PM

Now how would it change the value of these items if it is attributed with proof to a KZ camp?

**BenVK** · 03-06-2011, 12:50 AM

You pose an interesting question that some might feel distasteful so care must me taken when considering an answer.

I'm no expert in this area but know enough to suggest that the usual items bought home to the USA by soldiers that helped liberate some of the koncentrationslagers usualy fall into the category of items produced by the inmates of the camps for use in the German war industry, insignia, caps etc. Do some research on Dachau liberated items for more details of what I'm talking about. They have value on the collectors market of course but due to the quantities found and now dispersed within the collectors community, the pathos of these items has been more or less forgotten nowadays.

It's a totaly different story if an item is found that has a direct link with someone who was either one of the persecuted or persecutors of the camps. Wether it's moraly right or wrong, something like the orginal uniform of Rudolf Höss would command a huge price if it came up for sale and much more than a uniform from another SS Officer of the same rank. I think we would all take that fact for granted but trying to explain why the difference in price and interest would be a troubling and difficult thing to explain to anyone not involved with this hobby. I can see the Daily Mail headlines now, "Nazi murderers uniform sells for a record price!"

Personally, I've always felt that the whole debate about this has been over simplified by the media for too many years now. It's a hugely complex subject that has little to do with our modern judgements of what is right and wrong. I'm moving off track here regarding placing the value on artifacts related to KZ camps but I think it's important for each individual collector to study this subject and come to their own conclusions about what it all means and whether they would want to own anything relating to this disturbing era of history.

For example, being that my girlfriend is from Lithuania, to find and study any personal artifacts from a Lithuanian SS soldiers involved in the massacre of Jews in that country would be of huge interest to me but trying to place a "premium" on a price on those sorts of artifacts is distasteful to me. I just know that I would like to have them so price, to a sensible degree of course, would not be an issue.

**BenVK** · 03-06-2011, 01:52 AM

I have to edit my own text here, I should have said "Lithuanian partisans" and not Lithuanian SS. Such are the factual errors that the media almost always ignore.

The SS Einsatzgruppen

**Killroy** · 03-06-2011, 01:53 AM

by BenVK

You pose an interesting question that some might feel distasteful so care must me taken when considering an answer.

I'm no expert in this area but know enough to suggest that the usual items bought home to the USA by soldiers that helped liberate some of the koncentrationslagers usualy fall into the category of items produced by the inmates of the camps for use in the German war industry, insignia, caps etc. Do some research on Dachau liberated items for more details of what I'm talking about. They have value on the collectors market of course but due to the quantities found and now dispersed within the collectors community, the pathos of these items has been more or less forgotten nowadays.

It's a totaly different story if an item is found that has a direct link with someone who was either one of the persecuted or persecutors of the camps. Wether it's moraly right or wrong, something like the orginal uniform of Rudolf Höss would command a huge price if it came up for sale and much more than a uniform from another SS Officer of the same rank. I think we would all take that fact for granted but trying to explain why the difference in price and interest would be a troubling and difficult thing to explain to anyone not involved with this hobby. I can see the Daily Mail headlines now, "Nazi murderers uniform sells for a record price!"

Personally, I've always felt that the whole debate about this has been over simplified by the media for too many years now. It's a hugely complex subject that has little to do with our modern judgements of what is right and wrong. I'm moving off track here regarding placing the value on artifacts related to KZ camps but I think it's important for each individual collector to study this subject and come to their own conclusions about what it all means and whether they would want to own anything relating to this disturbing era of history.

For example, being that my girlfriend is from Lithuania, to find and study any personal artifacts from a Lithuanian SS soldiers involved in the massacre of Jews in that country would be of huge interest to me but trying to place a "premium" on a price on those sorts of artifacts is distasteful to me. I just know that I would like to have them so price, to a sensible degree of course, would not be an issue.

Thank you for your well put response to my question. I agree with your opinion on the large ammount of "unissued" insignia comming onto the market. As far as my personal opinion politics aside I think the following is one of the reasons that KZ items are so expensive. I try to put myself in the shoes of the persons that were around back then. Not in the sick way but in a way of the human trait of self preservation. It was in the best intrest of anyone associated with the camps to completely remove every (in this case) garmet, identity book, or insignia that would surely have them killed on the spot. I have heard stored of uniforms being burried, burned, thrown in rivers, and altered. With this, an already rather small section of an already small organization has much of its insignia gone before the ravages of time even have a shot at destroying more. If I am off base and my thought process is wrong I am sure I will be corrected but this is the most strait common sense approach I could take to rationalizing the high prices of these items.

Regards

Jeff

**BenVK** · 03-06-2011, 02:33 AM

Dear Jeff, you are not off base at all. In fact, I think you've nailedi it. Very few SS were involved with the camps and even fewer items survive to this day because of the reasons you suggested. However, trying to work out a premium on the price for those items can be a difficult and upseting thing to judge.