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Article about: Moreover, since young people are as obsessed with Totenkoepfe as were older generations, the symbols of the cult of death in central European society and art have a place here, too. The pres

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Help needed

    And on:
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  3. #42

    Default Re: Help needed

    Quote by Frog View Post
    And on:

    But our man from the Kommandantura is looking at the camera, while the cameraman wisely is looking at the officer and the fetching young woman. I look at the fetching young woman, too, of course, as one must.

    The human aspect of the past is much more interesting than silly propaganda pictures.

    By the way, Paris is always wonderful.
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    damit, basta.

  4. #43
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    Default Re: Help needed

    I assume, as you, that the officer's attention was elsewhere only seconds earlier.

    Erla -

    For further interesting reading on your subject, I recommend Heinz Hohne"s "The Order of the Death's Head" (a tome, to be sure) and "The SS: A History 1919-1945" by Koehl. Both fine volumes.

    These prior lackadasical pictures were preceeded by such:
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  5. #44
    erlastefans
    ?

    Default Re: Help needed

    Wow, I am just amazed by all these amazing responses...Thank you!
    I've been to all the libraries available in Reykjavik and neighbourhood and the books I got were:
    -hitler and nazism by enzo collotti
    -A short history of Germany 1815-1945 by E.J.Passant
    -The rise of the Nazis by Fischer
    -Uniforms of world war II by Peter Darman
    -The armed forces of world war II by Andrew Mollo
    -The black corps by robert lewis koehl
    and The oxford companion to the second world war I don't think it'll come of much use but for my common knowledge i'm sure it will come in handy!

    As for ordering books, it is not really an option for me at this point (the currency and financial system here is beyond laughable...)

    I'm trying to go through each and every post and get it together on paper and I will make sure to make this "my own" when it comes to writing but of course it will be in Icelandic - so it'll be translated and therefor changed in the process...

    I am trying to build a structure for the essay, maybe I'll write it here and you can give me pointers?

    -Introduction--> general information about military uniforms...and a short introduction and what the essay will be all about
    -Overview on the development of military uniforms from the time of the Romans and such...? The difference between german military uniforms in the first and second world war...
    -the nazi ideology and their vision/who were the men behind it/why?
    -The uniforms: Here I'd take numerous uniforms and give detailed descriptions on them and do a very detailed description on the SS-uniforms / regalia
    -Comparison on the average german soldier from the first world war and the SS-uniform in the second...
    -Here I'm not so sure... I was originally thinking about having a chapter about from where the Nazi designs came from / the inspiration they had (Weren't they fascinated by the gods, Odinn and such?)
    Comparison on the general design for the german public and the nazi uniform designs.... maybe talk a little about the clothing for women on this time. Eva Braun was wonderful and denied wearing the "typical grey suit" that was for women am I right? She was very glamorous....!
    -What influence did the nazis make in their latter time?
    -Final words.... my thoughts and thinking hahaha

    This is all over the place still but ... one has to start from some point!

    Thank you for your responses and feel free to comment on the structure for the essay --- i can take it don't worry! haha

    I've gotten some weird responses for why I wanted to write this final essay ... which might explain the fashion industry world i'm swimming in - "Why are you going to write about Nazis and not shoes???" hehe, I'm a fish swimming against the stream here!

    Best regards and make sure to wave my little island when you fly over it!

    Erla

  6. #45

    Default Re: Help needed

    Quote by erlastefans View Post
    Wow, I am just amazed by all these amazing responses...Thank you!
    I've been to all the libraries available in Reykjavik and neighbourhood and the books I got were:
    -hitler and nazism by enzo collotti MAYBE 2ND
    -A short history of Germany 1815-1945 by E.J.Passant
    -The rise of the Nazis by Fischer
    -Uniforms of world war II by Peter Darman
    -The armed forces of world war II by Andrew Mollo
    -The black corps by robert lewis koehl READ THIS FIRST
    and The oxford companion to the second world war I don't think it'll come of much use but for my common knowledge i'm sure it will come in handy!

    As for ordering books, it is not really an option for me at this point (the currency and financial system here is beyond laughable...)
    SORRY...SOMEONE GIVE THIS WOMAN THE MOLLO BOOK AND WRITE IT OFF YOUR TAXES.

    I'm trying to go through each and every post and get it together on paper and I will make sure to make this "my own" when it comes to writing but of course it will be in Icelandic - so it'll be translated and therefor changed in the process... THAT IS GOOD AND I DID NOT THINK OF THAT, SORRY. WE TRUST YOU, BUT I DO NOT TRUST IDIOT COMPUTERS WHO WON'T RECOGNIZE WHAT WE ARE DOING

    I am trying to build a structure for the essay, maybe I'll write it here and you can give me pointers?

    -Introduction--> general information about military uniforms...and a short introduction and what the essay will be all about
    -Overview on the development of military uniforms from the time of the Romans and such...? The difference between german military uniforms in the first and second world war...
    -the nazi ideology and their vision/who were the men behind it/why? THE KEY SHOULD BE IDEOLOGY AND THE CULT OF UNIFORMS FROM THE 18TH UNTIL THE 20TH CENTURY, WITH THE MAIN POINT BEING FROM THE 1880S THROUGH THE 1920S, UNIFORMS BECAME A STANDARD FEATURE OF LIFE, STATUS, RANK, ASPIRATIONS OF POWER AND MANHOOD.
    -The uniforms: Here I'd take numerous uniforms and give detailed descriptions on them and do a very detailed description on the SS-uniforms / regalia YOU HAVE TO DO THIS CAREFULLY, OR IT GETS TO BE A LONG LIST, AND DEADLY DULL.

    IT NEEDS ILLUSTRATIONS AND ARTFUL VARIATIONS

    -Comparison on the average german soldier from the first world war and the SS-uniform in the second...

    THE FACT IS THAT THE SS UNIFORM IS A MIXTURE OF AUSTRIAN AND EVEN BRITISH FASHION WITH THE ADDITION OF THE NORDIC PIECE



    -Here I'm not so sure... I was originally thinking about having a chapter about from where the Nazi designs came from / the inspiration they had (Weren't they fascinated by the gods, Odinn and such?)

    THE MOSSE BOOK HELPS YOU THERE, AS IT LAYS OUT A LOT OF THIS. BUT THERE ARE OTHERS AS WELL.


    Comparison on the general design for the german public and the nazi uniform designs.... maybe talk a little about the clothing for women on this time. Eva Braun was wonderful and denied wearing the "typical grey suit" that was for women am I right? She was very glamorous....!

    THIS IS A GOOD POINT, BUT HARD TO DO WITHOUT A LOT OF GERMAN LITERATURE.

    THE CLOTHING OF THE ERA GENERALLY WAS GOOD LOOKING, WELL MADE, AND CHIC EVEN FOR THOSE WITH LITTLE MEANS.

    AND THE PEOPLE FIT IN THEIR CLOTHES, WHICH THEY DO NOT DO TODAY, AT LEAST NOT WHERE I LIVE. I AM SURE ICELAND IS BETTER.


    -What influence did the nazis make in their latter time?
    -Final words.... my thoughts and thinking hahaha

    THE NAZIS HAVE AN ENDURING EMPHASIS ON CULTURE, AESTHETICS AND FASHION, EVEN.

    PARTIALLY IT IS SHOCK VALUE AND THE SEX THING, BUT IT WAS ALWAYS TO A GREAT DEAL ABOUT SEX AS I INDICATED IN MY POSTS.

    This is all over the place still but ... one has to start from some point!

    YOU HAVE TO START, AND YOU HAVE DONE SO. BRAVA.

    Thank you for your responses and feel free to comment on the structure for the essay --- i can take it don't worry! haha

    I've gotten some weird responses for why I wanted to write this final essay ... which might explain the fashion industry world i'm swimming in - "Why are you going to write about Nazis and not shoes???" hehe, I'm a fish swimming against the stream here!

    THE NATURE OF THE THING MEANS THAT NO ONE TAKES IT SERIOUSLY WITHOUT BEING ACCUSED OF BEING A HITLERITE.
    I CANNOT BE ONE, BUT I TAKE IT SERIOUSLY AND SO SHOULD YOU.

    ONE ALWAYS PAYS A PRICE FOR LIFE'S CHOICES.
    DO WHAT INTERESTS YOU, BUT YOU SHOULD ALSO BE AWARE OF THE POLITICS OF THE THING AND THE MISERY THAT THESE NICE CLOTHES HELPED TO CAUSE.

    Best regards and make sure to wave my little island when you fly over it! I SHALL INDEED.

    Erla
    Dear Erla, Thanks for yours and I guess I forgot that you would translate all of this, which, per se, changes it all and that is all for the good.

    I think you ideas are sound, but I do not think you have to reconstruct uniforms all the way back to the origins of western warfare. You can surely focus more on the 19th century and into the 20th century, where there is enough material.

    Of all the books you listed, start with the Koehl, or maybe read some on Nazi ideas. Not all the titles there immediately reach me.

    The women thing is also good, as, of course, women dressed very chic in the 1930s, despite all the hardship and difficulty. Look at the nice woman in Paris who Bruce posted. Here is where the German literature is first rate and very interesting.

    I am afraid that the question of why you write about history and not shoes is a self licking ice cream cone. Either one understands that we human beings exist in a continuum or not, and many do not and, moreover, do not care.

    My colleagues will comment further. I have to finish my briefing and then I will might offer you some more here. But you can adjust your schema to our posts, and the others here, and make sense of them. When in doubt, it is always useful to do things in chronology and then add the themes.

    We admire your guts, and the aesthetics of power are always interesting, even if people are obsessed with foot wear and what not.

    Good luck. As of Sunday, I shall not be in this space. My colleagues can help.

    PS is there not a university library with a proper section on German history there?
    damit, basta.

  7. #46
    erlastefans
    ?

    Default Re: Help needed

    Thank you!

    The Mollo book looks really promising and I'm going to try to get the other ones from amazon or something - I'm going to look better into that tomorrow.

    I'll start reading the Black Corps and try to get my thoughts together on the ideology...

    This is so exciting, my 5 year old son was looking at the Mollo book before and we were discussing the illustrations of the outfits and he was so impressed - I thought it was cute; I mean, little does he know what he's looking at really but he thought they were nice (and he has strong opinions!)

    I've also been wondering about the historical overview of the military uniforms and i agree - it would enough to do the 19th and 20th ...

    Well, I'll keep you posted on what happens; I'll bring an updated version hopefully tomorrow night or on saturday and hopefully get a response before you disappear

    And also... Thank you for the boost !

    Erla

  8. #47

    Default Re: Help needed

    Quote by erlastefans View Post
    Thank you!

    The Mollo book looks really promising and I'm going to try to get the other ones from amazon or something - I'm going to look better into that tomorrow. THE MOLLO BOOK YOU NEED ABOVE ALL ELSE TO BO WITH KOEHL

    I'll start reading the Black Corps and try to get my thoughts together on the ideology... BRAVA

    This is so exciting, my 5 year old son was looking at the Mollo book before and we were discussing the illustrations of the outfits and he was so impressed - I thought it was cute; I mean, little does he know what he's looking at really but he thought they were nice (and he has strong opinions!) SEE BELOW

    I've also been wondering about the historical overview of the military uniforms and i agree - it would enough to do the 19th and 20th ... THE FOCUS ON MILITARISM, I.E. THE RISE OF THE ARMY IN THE NATION AND THE ARMIES OF MILLIONS IN THE MODERN EUROPEAN NATION STATE AFTER THE MIDDLE OF THE 19TH CENTURY LEADS DIRECTLY TO 1914-1918, I.E. ALL THESE PEOPLE WORE A UNIFORM IN WORLD WAR ONE AND GOT USED TO IT AS BETTER THAN CIVILIAN CLOTHES.

    Well, I'll keep you posted on what happens; I'll bring an updated version hopefully tomorrow night or on saturday and hopefully get a response before you disappear

    And also... Thank you for the boost ! THANKS FOR GIVING US A CHANCE TO THINK ABOUT ALL OF THIS.

    Erla
    The Mollo book is the source of all knowledge, because he explains the organization. Mollo gives visual expression to that which is in Koehl. You should also read Hannah Arendt in the origins of totalitarianism about the capacity of totalitarian political movements to create elite, praetorian guard organizations on an ongoing basis. This is the key to the SS. Himmler was also the kind of man who exists in all bureaucracies who takes on more and more roles and missions, especially the nasty ones, which make for power. I see this in my own life, actually.

    The SS uniform evolves from the SA uniform, which is part military surplus, part deliberate copy of Italian fascism, part improvisation and then takes on a character of its own that reflects a deep reality of status and snobbery in Bavarian and German society.
    The link to fashion, especially in Munich is something you can also work out, though I am not especially sure that Munich was a center of much fashion (whereas Berlin and Vienna surely were...). The uniform changes as the SS (along with the Nazis) come closer to power. The year 1932 is essential here (that is when the all black uniform arises), and as the institution becomes further established as branch of party power in the state (after 1933), the uniform is changed again, and finally is adjusted to the needs of conquest and war. I am especially obsessed with the black uniforms, but they are quickly supplanted by grey and other colored field uniforms suited for expressly military roles. In this, the modern aspect of the uniform is important, too, that is, that the SS used the means of 20th century to maintain internal security and seized on talented people willing to innovate to secure such power with totalitarian means.

    Of course, then, once the war turns against Germany, the uniform falls apart and becomes a kind of mess, surely, but there are highly forward looking elements to same which bear no resemblance to the original uniform of the early 1920s, other than the common theme of organized violence.

    The fact that your son likes it merely reflects the fact that the Nazis embodied the little boy in society at large, with the symbols of power and manhood and strength and violence that are generally appealing to little boys of all ages, which is a sobering thought. But I completely understand.

    Good luck and I look forward to what you offer us.

    PS Susan Sontag also wrote about SS uniforms, but more in their sexual dimension, which you probably have to include, too. That is, sado masochists like the Heydrich look for their own purposes, which is a subject outside of my grasp, but it is the grasp of fashion today because pornography and marginal social phenomenon have been so mainstream in the 21st century. Others have surely written about fashion, lust, desire, violence, death, et cetera, which I am too ignorant to understand.

    Happy foetid woolens.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    damit, basta.

  9. #48

    Default Re: Help needed

    Something else occurs to me, too, which is go to Wikimedia and find the site where the German archives (Bundesarchiv/Bildarchiv) have put a couple of hundred thousand pictures of the 20th century into the common pot there. Look at what the context was in the years 1914-1945 in Germany so you are familiar with it all, somehow.
    That is, you need context, too.
    The Bildarchiv preussischer Kulturbesitz website is good, as is, really, the Life Magazine site in Google Images. Spend time looking at fashion of the 1920s through 1940s in its wider context.

    SS uniforms fit in said context, as they were not so really far fetched from other uniforms with breeches, sam browne belts, and riding boots and such. The German variety were especially showy, but not as much as the Italians, nor are they to this day. Italians look the very best in uniforms, and do now, in fact.

    Happy foetid woolens.

    If I knew how to attach links, I would do so. We all downloaded a lot of the Bundesarchiv images, but they are at hand and do take some time, but it is worth it.

    PS I shall also wave as I scoot by, though I may not be awake. But in my line of work I spend a lot of time looking at No. Canada, Greenland and Iceland in a kind of dream as such unrolls before me, and now, with global warming, one can see much more of the Artic world.
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    damit, basta.

  10. #49
    ?

    Default Re: Help needed

    F-M:

    Viel Gluck auf ihrer Reise!

  11. #50

    Default Re: Help needed

    Quote by Frog View Post
    F-M:

    Viel Gluck auf ihrer Reise!
    I shall find some foetid woolens for you.

    Actually, on the Danube, there is a surplus of truly foetid newish woolens, which are not of the era. But they smell like the sewers in which Harry Lime expired.

    The authentic things are all hoarded in collections where they seldom see the light of day.

    Thanks for the kind words and all the best to you, Bruce.
    damit, basta.

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