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Info needed : SS concentration camp skull K collar tabs totenkop

Article about: Please let me know what you all think of these collar tabs. I have a chance to buy them, they look good, but the fakes are really good these days. thanks

  1. #31

    Default Re: Info needed : SS concentration camp skull K collar tabs totenkop

    Quote by blackheart0866 View Post
    Could not ask for better, then what you have there, thank you, much appreciated.

    Brian
    These uniforms are ordinary in the minds of some, but the chances of having a pile of real SS Totenkopfverbaende uniforms is pretty slight. I do not move and shake in the circles in which such things are the norm, and I have no desire to do so, either.

    I find the anonymous, lowly Nazi's clothes as interesting as the potentate and the Ritterkreuztraeger glamor puss lionized by others.

    I hold noting with the cult of celebrity either today or then.
    damit, basta.

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  3. #32
    ?

    Default Re: Info needed : SS concentration camp skull K collar tabs totenkop

    Strange, I thought officers always wore the Standarte number on the cuff title, but the Sta.58 tunic obviously has the Sturm number there instead.

  4. #33

    Default Re: Info needed : SS concentration camp skull K collar tabs totenkop

    Quote by Walter View Post
    Strange, I thought officers always wore the Standarte number on the cuff title, but the Sta.58 tunic obviously has the Sturm number there instead.
    I have made the point many times that the secondary works on the Allgemeine SS do not adequately describe the reality of the uniform. The second point, which does not bear repeating from what I just posted is that the people themselves at the time did not know what to wear or when and how. So if the SS was itself confused about its insignia, then how can we know in the 21st century? The Cologne uniform came from a very noted collector in the US south and is an untouched piece. The idea that the officers wore the Standarte number on the cuff and the collar is not borne out in reality. I believe that those on the staff of the Standarte wore the Standarte number on the cuff, but those in the Sturmbanne and Stuerme then wore other numerals.

    Either those who know the real answer withhold the data, or they do not know, either.

    I have more than one of these uniforms. The Mollo books are excellent, but they are surely not the whole story. And the Angolia book has serious flaws, actually. It is a tiny point, but if you encounter an authentic uniform in this configuration, the errors in these secondary works are more than irritating.
    damit, basta.

  5. #34

    Default Re: Info needed : SS concentration camp skull K collar tabs totenkop

    The closest thing to published dress regulations for the Allgem. SS is what lies in the Org. Buch d. NSDAP, though I once saw a regulation from the Allgem. SS itself, but that was in the middle 1970s, when my understanding of these things was less mature. I surely wish I could see it today. I believe that our Peter J owns such a document, but I am not sure, either.
    What is sure from the SS Befehlsblaetter is that the 1934 system was generally revised in 1937, but the secondary works contain almost no hint of same. And, the basic principle in the SS was one of thrift and even parsimony, that the old model and the new model were worn concurrently, since one did not want to line out the investment in the original regalia as wasteful of precious, precious party or public monies. This is also why it behooves you to read about the economic foundations of the SS, which really says alot about the uniforms. But this literature is mostly in German. As are the original documents....which I have now posted here somewhat to enliven things made dead by pictures of fake "sculls."

    By the way, what is on this man's cuff? Do you know?
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    damit, basta.

  6. #35

    Default Re: Info needed : SS concentration camp skull K collar tabs totenkop

    To enliven your interest, the cover page of the SS Befehlsblaetter in 1938 with insignia. Notice that this document was found in an SS Oberabschnitt HQ. I believe this is all from US NARA t-175 microforms.

    Notice also the breakdown of the various segments of the SS leadership, beginning with the RFSS himself, or sometimes, from the man, himself, as in the order introducing the death's head on the "Oberbayern" cuff title. The uniform items are generally from the Oswald Pohl part, i.e. the Verwaltungschef SS. But the regalia issues are present elsewhere, too, here.

    And for good measure, I include the list of abbreviations used in the 1936 Dienstalterliste, which is always a useful source.

    No serious SS collector should distance himself from these things. Life is also richer if you use the right abbreviations, and not those of visitors to US gun shows.
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    damit, basta.

  7. #36

    Default Re: Info needed : SS concentration camp skull K collar tabs totenkop

    In looking at the Befehlsblaetter as well as the rank lists, I am always struck by how many people left the SS in the course of a year in the period 1934-1939 either because they moved on to such things as the Wehrmacht or because Heini H booted them out. If so, where did their uniforms go? Their hats? Their badges and what not? The Organisationsbuch has something to say on this score, to be sure, but the amount of persons is more than small here.

    Of course, a lot of this regalia was then destroyed, too, either through the course of the war itself, recycling drives, and then the natural desire in 1945 and thereafter to pitch what was surely highly incriminating junk. I recall my friends in Germany describe the latter process in considerable detail. Alles geht vorueber, alles geht vorbei....
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    damit, basta.

  8. #37

    Default Re: Info needed : SS concentration camp skull K collar tabs totenkop

    Alles geht vorueber, alles geht vorbei
    Everything passes, everything will pass

    Yes, i've heard that before from relatives, Not said the exact way, but similar..

  9. #38

    Default Re: Info needed : SS concentration camp skull K collar tabs totenkop

    Quote by blackheart0866 View Post
    Alles geht vorueber, alles geht vorbei
    Everything passes, everything will pass

    Yes, i've heard that before from relatives, Not said the exact way, but similar..
    I stole the phrase from Lale Andersen and her song from 1942.

    It occurs to me more than once a week in the splendor of peace and prosperity that is the 21st century, but I do not wish to make a political statement here, since it is out of place.

    But I also wonder about the remnants of the past, especially when confronted with the internal workings of the SS, as I am well acquainted with the workings of hierarchical bureaucratic organizations and matters of personnel.
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    damit, basta.

  10. #39

    Default Re: Info needed : SS concentration camp skull K collar tabs totenkop

    The endurance of these things is more than a coincidence. You see that the ring to which the dagger was affixed while the Koppelzeug was put aside while at the table or whatnot has gone a glimmering...
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    damit, basta.

  11. #40

    Default Re: Info needed : SS concentration camp skull K collar tabs totenkop

    Very well put Friedrich-Berthold.

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