interesting Stammabteilung photos

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 03-01-2013, 02:01 PM

The political soldier idea was at the core of national socialism, also the SA and then the SS and generalized in Europe, for instance, in the socialist Buergerwehr in Austria or the right wing Heimwehr and on and on.

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 03-01-2013 02:01 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**d'alquen** · 03-01-2013, 04:16 PM

"I have never seen any mention to TK Stammabteilung members"
jHAM,
I'm afraid I can't help you with this one. I have gone over quite a lot of SS-TV documents, as I have been researching their insignia, and I have not found any mention of such an organisation. Service in the SS-TV was on a full-time basis and, like the SS-VT, those service requirements don't really accommodate such a part-time structure. One would have thought that if a member of the TV or VT was no longer on active service they would join the regular SS-Stammabteilung.
d'Alquen

**DrCMH** · 03-01-2013, 07:03 PM

by Friedrich-Berthold

Attachment 475795You really have to engage the most recent scholarship I have cited, especially the Hein book on the Allgemeine SS. It covers this in complete detail, as does the Austrian one on the Wiener SS.
The Order thing is sort of obsolete as an explanation, as Himmler was remarkably adept at integrating the SS into many structures in society in something quite different than the average person here understands.
There is a ton of new scholarship of great variety in Germany on all of this, and not all of it or really any of it is easily had in English.

Thank you for the further explanation my friend. As a professional historian with command of the German language and thus access to research beyond the average fellow like myself, your words are of great value. I actually have in my library the above work but it is still outside my reach at this time. In the near future I hope to change that with a bit more education.

I do thank you for your time in explaining this topic further and educating our little group.

CMH

**DrCMH** · 03-01-2013, 07:10 PM

by d'alquen

"I have never seen any mention to TK Stammabteilung members"
jHAM,
I'm afraid I can't help you with this one. I have gone over quite a lot of SS-TV documents, as I have been researching their insignia, and I have not found any mention of such an organisation. Service in the SS-TV was on a full-time basis and, like the SS-VT, those service requirements don't really accommodate such a part-time structure. One would have thought that if a member of the TV or VT was no longer on active service they would join the regular SS-Stammabteilung.
d'Alquen

Dear Sir, thank you for presenting your findings to us here. These few sentences, I am sure, reflect the research that has taken a VERY long time to gather and we all profit from it.

CMH

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 03-01-2013, 07:25 PM

by DrCMH

Thank you for the further explanation my friend. As a professional historian with command of the German language and thus access to research beyond the average fellow like myself, your words are of great value. I actually have in my library the above work but it is still outside my reach at this time. In the near future I hope to change that with a bit more education.

I do thank you for your time in explaining this topic further and educating our little group.

CMH

My pleasure. I am sure some of this work is now in English, but I find it in Germany and Austria, hence its posture here.
This theme is a real hobby horse of mine.

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 03-01-2013, 07:26 PM

by DrCMH

Dear Sir, thank you for presenting your findings to us here. These few sentences, I am sure, reflect the research that has taken a VERY long time to gather and we all profit from it.

CMH

I associate myself with the above. The SSTV is a thicket of confusion, and Mr. d'Alquen has deepened himself in the real documents. But much of SS insignia is confusing and prone to contradictions, especially if you rely on, say, Angolia....
The paramilitary parts of the SS, the SSVT and SSTV operated on a different role and mission, budgetary and finally, identity than other parts of the SS, but as Mr. d'Alquen points out they were full time persons versus part timers. As such, they manifested the manner in which the party got control of the state through the dual pillar approach, i.e. that the paramilitary entities got support in resources and otherwise from the ministry of the interior and the military. The SS economy books go into this in great detail, as does Koehl. That is, the SS was hardly a monolithic organization, all hocus pocus about daggers and black clothes notwithstanding.
I also do not know of any reserve structure in SSTV units prior to 1939, save that the Allgemeine SS was mobilized to back fill the SSTV when the latter was sent off to fight. The Stammabteilung was integrated in the command structure and echelons of the Allgemeine SS proper, but there was much more cross over between the Allgem. SS, the SSTV and the SSVT than one lets on. For instance, on 9 November 1938, for instance, the Allgem. SS command in Radolfzell ordered SSVT engineering units to participate in the pogrom against Jews, a little remarked fact and one which goes against the "we were just soldiers" la di da hear by many. It may well have been that a Stammabteilung person was among the back fill personnel brought in as reinforcement in the fall of 1939, but that is conjecture. Again, Mr. d'Alquen knows best.

**jHAM** · 03-02-2013, 01:58 AM

by DrCMH

One more:
Attachment 475686

Thanks for sharing. This photo is used in the new Ulric book in a cropped format similiar to this. The full version of the photo is online in one of the photo archives that F-B's guidance lead me to. In the full image you can see these men are all Blood Order awardees. My broken computer will not let me share.

**jHAM** · 03-02-2013, 02:03 AM

by d'alquen

"I have never seen any mention to TK Stammabteilung members"
jHAM,
I'm afraid I can't help you with this one. I have gone over quite a lot of SS-TV documents, as I have been researching their insignia, and I have not found any mention of such an organisation. Service in the SS-TV was on a full-time basis and, like the SS-VT, those service requirements don't really accommodate such a part-time structure. One would have thought that if a member of the TV or VT was no longer on active service they would join the regular SS-Stammabteilung.
d'Alquen

Thank you very much for sharing your experience with us on this topic. Your work on this forum is a large reason why this forum is such a remarkable place.

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 03-06-2013, 05:35 AM

The relevant passages from the Org Book as concern the varieties of SS officer. Facts which are essential to make sense of our topic.

**jHAM** · 03-09-2013, 03:54 AM

The new book by the Englishman shows an example of the grey edged armband and attributes it to the SS-Stammabteilung. It seems that internet/collector lore also attributes them to the SS-Stammabteilung. Is this due to the ss rzm labels that were used on many later armbands (whether ss or not) or are there photos or documentation that backs this idea up? It seems like an after the fact explanation to me with no evidence. Maybe Im wrong.