Become our sponsor and display your banner here
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 21

Kapo cut cloth insignia on blue and white cloth. Is it a fake ? Help please.

Article about: i have seen a number of these on military tables. surely this must be a fake. or is it ?

  1. #11

    Default Re: Kapo cut cloth insignia on blue and white cloth. Is it a fake ? Help please.

    Quote by davejb View Post
    but as far as collecting this type of clothing, I personally feel that its a morbid fascination with pain and suffering and one that i wouldnt want to fascillitate
    I'm not saying this to be critical of anyone (or to start a fight ) but I can't personally understand why ownership of items belonging to victims of KZ camps is seen as morally wrong, whereas the ownership of SS items, who were the perpetrators of the pain and suffering, is considered one of the hobby's higher callings. More than a double standard if you ask me, but maybe I am missing something?

    People here get all excited about a TV collar patch, or the patch of a late war KZ camp staff transfer from the wehrmacht, and then are disgusted by part of the uniform of a Kapo?

    I have no emotion about it either way, history is history to me, and all warfare is pain and suffering.

    Rob

  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    Age
    2010
    P
    Many
     

  3. #12

    Default Re: Kapo cut cloth insignia on blue and white cloth. Is it a fake ? Help please.

    Hi Rob, like you say, it is all pain and suffering....

    As I mentioned, it would not be for me. Owning a bit of clothing of one of the many victims would not fit into my collection. Yet owning the trapings of a debased evil defeated enemy I have no problem with. "To the victory the spoils" and all that....

    I am sure a shrink would have a field day with us lot

    What does p*iss me off is those who fake this kind of material for a quick buck Yet perversely, while fakers do p*ss me off I have less of a problem with someone touting a fake SS collar tab...

    Off to see the shrink now..

    Cheers, Ade.
    Had good advice? Saved money? Why not become a Gold Club Member, just hit the green "Join WRF Club" tab at the top of the page and help support the forum!

  4. #13

    Default Re: Kapo cut cloth insignia on blue and white cloth. Is it a fake ? Help please.

    Quote by Adrian Stevenson View Post
    Hi Rob, like you say, it is all pain and suffering....

    As I mentioned, it would not be for me. Owning a bit of clothing of one of the many victims would not fit into my collection. Yet owning the trapings of a debased evil defeated enemy I have no problem with. "To the victory the spoils" and all that....

    I am sure a shrink would have a field day with us lot

    Cheers, Ade.
    I suspect a shrink would suggest items like this represent too much reality for comfort?

    Rob

  5. #14

    Default Re: Kapo cut cloth insignia on blue and white cloth. Is it a fake ? Help please.

    I dread to think!

    There was a nice quote from Max Hastings I think a few years back, re "the pornography of death"

    Cheers, Ade.
    Had good advice? Saved money? Why not become a Gold Club Member, just hit the green "Join WRF Club" tab at the top of the page and help support the forum!

  6. #15

    Default Re: Kapo cut cloth insignia on blue and white cloth. Is it a fake ? Help please.

    Quote by Adrian Stevenson View Post
    What does p*iss me off is those who fake this kind of material for a quick buck Yet perversely, while fakers do p*ss me off I have less of a problem with someone touting a fake SS collar tab...
    That I do understand, after all, that is exploitation of the KZ Lager victims, as well as fraud, which are both morally wrong, but at different levels.

    I don't collect SS or KZ, but I have no moral issues with owning either. I have to admit, I don't really have any feelings about the 'final solution' at all.

    Rob

  7. #16

    Default Re: Kapo cut cloth insignia on blue and white cloth. Is it a fake ? Help please.

    I think a reality check is needed now and again. It does one good. You can got so tied up in collecting, original vs fake and all that rubbish, and you soon become devorced from the actual reality of the Nazis and what they represented in it's purest form: and that is the camps.

    Cheers, Ade.
    Had good advice? Saved money? Why not become a Gold Club Member, just hit the green "Join WRF Club" tab at the top of the page and help support the forum!

  8. #17
    ?

    Default Re: Kapo cut cloth insignia on blue and white cloth. Is it a fake ? Help please.

    Some fine points gents, and this topic is far too often ignored, or swept under the carpet. That is man's greatest mistake. Ignorance kills.

    Regards,

    Carl
    Experienced guide and published author leading detailed study trips to the former KZ sites of Nazi Germany. Contact for further details.

    www.concentrationcamptours.com

    www.concentrationcampmoney.com


    "maka akaŋl oyate maŋi pi ki le, tuweŋi wypeya oki hi sni"

  9. #18
    ?

    Default Re: Kapo cut cloth insignia on blue and white cloth. Is it a fake ? Help please.

    Your correct , all warfare is pain and suffering, but that is the operative word, WARFARE, these people were not at war with their captors, they were subjucated, treated badly and eventually disposed of, and clothing from that area of captivity is directly related to those events, whereas a uniform, SS or otherwise or peices thereof may or may not be directly related to those events as the owner may or may not have been present and would be hard to prove otherwise, that is my take on it and perhaps its oversensitivity on my part, but as I said I personally wouldnt feel comfortable with having that item

  10. #19

    Default Re: Kapo cut cloth insignia on blue and white cloth. Is it a fake ? Help please.

    Quote by davejb View Post
    Your correct , all warfare is pain and suffering, but that is the operative word, WARFARE, these people were not at war with their captors, they were subjucated, treated badly and eventually disposed of, and clothing from that area of captivity is directly related to those events, whereas a uniform, SS or otherwise or peices thereof may or may not be directly related to those events as the owner may or may not have been present and would be hard to prove otherwise, that is my take on it and perhaps its oversensitivity on my part, but as I said I personally wouldnt feel comfortable with having that item
    I agree completely with what you say, but you use "their captors" instead of what you mean, i.e. "the SS". The inmates in the camps were not at war with the SS, but they were nonetheless subjugated, treated badly and eventually disposed of... by the SS. And this is the same organization, whether it is the SSTV, the Waffen-SS, the SD, the Allgemeine-SS or whatever. Their uniforms would be the representation of this immorality and evil, if you want to make that argument, not the rags their victims wore.

    I don't want anyone to justify their collecting SS material to me, as far as I'm concerned collecting it is fine, no justification needed. I personally don't sit in judgement of the SS or the Nazis. They did what they did, and believed it was right, and what's done is done, and it's history now. We won't learn from it, because humanity never does.

    I just don't understand how collectors of SS items can be morally outraged by the actions of the SS, that's all.

    Rob

  11. #20

    Default Re: Kapo cut cloth insignia on blue and white cloth. Is it a fake ? Help please.

    History, in all it's faces-both ugly and beautiful-is still just that-History. Cases could be made-and quite substantial ones at that-for not liking or agreeing with almost Every war-era bit that is collected. Gestapo items? Are they okey? Halves of dogtags that have been dug? Sniper badges? Does anyone object to Organization Todt memorabilia? They used slave labor,didn't they? Personal jewelry and lucky tokens? How about Tarnow? It was SS And a prison- are things from there okey? Whether it's ordnance, uniforms, awards and badges, or What have you...What part of war collecting is squeaky clean? Unfortunately, death and ugliness pretty much pervades the entirety of any wartime collectables. Either it was involved in taking life, connected to it, or had It's owners life taken, That is pretty much what War is all about. A coin in a peasant's pocket-it helped the war effort. A pilot's badge? So many pilot's were shoot happy flyers that they quite often inflicted heavy casualties on even their Own troops. War is War and even by the wildest stretch of fancy and imagination, it is not and can not Ever be attractive or desirable. In the end, we collect what speaks loudest to us. If it conjures up wild and chaotic battlefield images in our minds or the pageantry and magnificence of rallies and amazing times or, yes-the Dark days and events too of terrible times, it is all a matter of History. We can, of course, pick and choose various aspects of it to our own liking, but the Rest of History is still there and ignoring and forgetting about it will not and never has erase any of it.
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. REAL or FAKE? - SA DLV Bullion Cloth Insignia

    In Non-Combat Uniforms and related insignia of the Third Reich
    12-30-2013, 11:24 PM
  2. Ats cloth cap badge,red on white..any ideas

    In Insignia, Flags and regalia
    11-02-2013, 02:59 PM
  3. Need Help on cloth insignia

    In Heer, Luftwaffe, & Kriegsmarine Uniforms of the Third Reich
    02-22-2013, 10:43 PM
  4. cloth insignia

    In Non-Combat Uniforms and related insignia of the Third Reich
    02-06-2010, 11:54 PM
  5. RAF Beret, cloth, blue grey.

    In Cloth headgear-Western Allies
    11-16-2008, 08:45 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •