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KZ Dachau 1933

Article about: Thanks for the above. I was on temporary duty in Europe for two weeks and unable to respond to the above. I think there has been some misunderstanding here, which readers can reconcile in ca

  1. #71

    Default Re: KZ Dachau 1933

    This has all been a interesting read from a Americans point of view, Chilling photos in the sence that what happened to these poor bastards...It also shows the face of what humans will do. My wife had family in the German Military and I had family fighting against it....it was a very expensive lesson and much has been learned, What man is able to do to fellow man and how well he can do it. This is not a German Problem, its all humans carry something that can lead to this. Lets hope this never happens on a large(or any) scale again...But human nature says otherwise. I have found this link very interesting read and am very thankful it did not happen to me...

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  3. #72
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    Default Re: KZ Dachau 1933

    Having visited Belsen in the mid seventies, I was shocked. Although there is almost nothing left standing, There is a presence you feel as soon as you walk in there.The legend is that no birds fly within its boundaries nor any animals walk across its grounds and i can honestly say that i didnt see either or hear the birds the whole time i was there. The most eerie thing is the silence when you walk among the mass graves except if you visit on a day when the army ranges are firing miles away. I heard the heavy guns going off and i sat and imagined what those inmates were hearing prior to their being found by a British army patrol, a very thought provoking moment in time and one that i will never forget.

  4. #73
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    Default Re: KZ Dachau 1933

    I have been to many camp memorial sites and I can safely confirm that the old wive's tale of no birds is just that....an old wive's tale, or more correctly post-war propaganda. At the Belsen site (which I found the least interesting from a historical point of view as there is nothing left of the original buildings) there was plenty of wildlife about, including many birds. It's in the middle of heathland. The guns you heard were from the British army range which is right next door and birds are less frequent when there is firing practice. The camp site which has most historical interest and is emotionally moving (apart from Auschwitz I & II) is Majdanek. Well worth a visit.
    W.

  5. #74

    Default Re: KZ Dachau 1933

    Speaking of certain sounds adding to the emotional reception of such places reminds me of back when I was at school and our class visited the Dachau camp site in the mid-Eighties.
    Close to a quarter century later, I still remember quite vividly that it was not just an overcast, gray and cold day, but coincidentally one on which the air raid sirens were tested and how that wailing sound with its automatic mental association with the terrors of war certainly made everything even more chilly.

  6. #75

    Default Re: KZ Dachau 1933

    Quote by Woske View Post
    I have been to many camp memorial sites and I can safely confirm that the old wive's tale of no birds is just that....an old wive's tale, or more correctly post-war propaganda. At the Belsen site (which I found the least interesting from a historical point of view as there is nothing left of the original buildings) there was plenty of wildlife about, including many birds. It's in the middle of heathland. The guns you heard were from the British army range which is right next door and birds are less frequent when there is firing practice. The camp site which has most historical interest and is emotionally moving (apart from Auschwitz I & II) is Majdanek. Well worth a visit.
    W.
    I have to differ with you for reason of one of my own personal experiences . . . maybe it was just an "odd" moment, but for about three hours, my Wife and I experienced just such an event at Ebensee, Anlage "B", two years ago. It was an absolute gorgeous day at the site, but not a soul was to be found ANYWHERE - not in the neighborhood just outside of the actual KZ site (which by the way is built directly on the original site of some of the original camp buildings), not in the tunnels, and certainly not at the cemetary. Upon arrival, we tried very hard to find someone to help us locate the site - short of knocking on doors. Finally, we gave up, found it on our own, and climbed all over the place - completely alone. We did not see or hear ANYTHING, and I mean anything - no people, no birds, not even the wind blowing! It was so creepy that my Wife and I both experienced one of those weird feelings where you just know that it's best if you simply leave . . . almost as if we were being watched by someone! I know moments can be experienced such as this - I had the pleasure (?) of experiencing one that day.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #76
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    Default Re: KZ Dachau 1933

    Quote by N.C. Wyeth View Post
    I have to differ with you for reason of one of my own personal experiences . . . maybe it was just an "odd" moment, but for about three hours, my Wife and I experienced just such an event at Ebensee, Anlage "B", two years ago. It was an absolute gorgeous day at the site, but not a soul was to be found ANYWHERE - not in the neighborhood just outside of the actual KZ site (which by the way is built directly on the original site of some of the original camp buildings), not in the tunnels, and certainly not at the cemetary. Upon arrival, we tried very hard to find someone to help us locate the site - short of knocking on doors. Finally, we gave up, found it on our own, and climbed all over the place - completely alone. We did not see or hear ANYTHING, and I mean anything - no people, no birds, not even the wind blowing! It was so creepy that my Wife and I both experienced one of those weird feelings where you just know that it's best if you simply leave . . . almost as if we were being watched by someone! I know moments can be experienced such as this - I had the pleasure (?) of experiencing one that day.
    Well, I too visited Ebensee in August 2008. (Did you go into the little museum in the town? Fascinating talking to the curator.) My experience at Ebensee was totally different regarding wildlife. In fact my friend nearly caught a lizard which scurried across our path on the way up to the tunnel entrance. There were also plenty of birds about. We saw some kind of hawk circling above the side of the mountain. There were no local people, other than a man working in his workshop, but that is because it was midweek. The Ebensee memorial site is not a frequent visitor location, and as you say, it is difficult to find. The site of the original camp is now occupied by housing, but part of the tunnel complex is open to the public, albeit with very little to see inside. The most interesting item in the exhibition was the original tunnel entrance gate, just outside. The cold isolation you describe is purely down to the site's location resulting in few visitors (not a bad thing) and the fact that it is a cold damp large tunnel built into a mountain side. Nothing more.
    W.
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  8. #77
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    Default Re: KZ Dachau 1933

    More interesting in this locality is the building used by T4, first as a rest and recuperation spot for T4 staff and then as administration HQ when bombing in Berlin forced a move to a less dangerous location. It is situated several miles from Ebensee.
    W.
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  9. #78

    Default Re: KZ Dachau 1933

    "A friend of mine that had been Waffen SS and had been captured at the battle of the bulge once told me that if any german told me that they had no idea what was going on in the camps they were damn well lying. Personally I feel no pty for what happened to the germans after the war... they probably got better than they deserved." -hassiman

    List name, rank, unit, and hometown and I might believe you have a friend who served in the SS. And if you did, you would have a different opinion on that article, as I don't think you would wish a beheading upon your friend would you?

    There are nearly 3 million criminals incarcerated across the United States. If the Penal System started mass executions within prison walls, without media coverage, with political cover-up, you honesty think the General Population would have any idea what was going on?

    A frontline SS unit, in fatigues, relieves a staff of concentration camp guards, and you justify their extremely brutal, inhumane deaths (Beheadings and death by mutilation), because you are assuming they knew something about this?

    To me, that kind of mentality is worse than that of the most fanatical of Nazi's.

  10. #79

    Default Re: KZ Dachau 1933

    Quote by Woske View Post
    Well, I too visited Ebensee in August 2008. (Did you go into the little museum in the town? Fascinating talking to the curator.) My experience at Ebensee was totally different regarding wildlife. In fact my friend nearly caught a lizard which scurried across our path on the way up to the tunnel entrance. There were also plenty of birds about. We saw some kind of hawk circling above the side of the mountain. There were no local people, other than a man working in his workshop, but that is because it was midweek. The Ebensee memorial site is not a frequent visitor location, and as you say, it is difficult to find. The site of the original camp is now occupied by housing, but part of the tunnel complex is open to the public, albeit with very little to see inside. The most interesting item in the exhibition was the original tunnel entrance gate, just outside. The cold isolation you describe is purely down to the site's location resulting in few visitors (not a bad thing) and the fact that it is a cold damp large tunnel built into a mountain side. Nothing more.
    W.
    Like I said, maybe it was just an "odd" moment . . . and honestly, I was happy for it - made the time spent there all the more memorable. I don't doubt some other form of life was there to be found - but it obviously did not want to be found by us that day! I would simply say that our experience offers the possibility that a similar such experience could be shared by someone else - maybe it would just have to be another "odd" moment, such as ours?

    Curiously, if you were there in 2008, we almost crossed paths - we were there in September . . . If you had been a month later, I could accuse you of being that person we thought might have been watching us from the woods!

    Honestly, all of Ebensee was a very interesting place - well worth a full afternoon, if you are in the area. The town is gorgeous, as is the lake, and it is an easy drive from Salzburg. Both Anlage sites are great, and as mentioned before, kind of off the beaten path. Just don't go on Monday - the tunnel at Anlage "B" is closed to the public, and everyone in town is at school or work. Then again, that could still be a perfect time for a "hair-raising" experience like ours, I suppose . . . and good luck to you, if that's what your out for!

    Oh yeah - we did attempt to find the T4 building that day, but our time was limited, and we moved on to Lake Hallstatt for a well-deserved meal . . . they have the best grilled fish! Thanks for the photos - I will know better what to look for this Fall!

  11. #80
    ?

    Default Re: KZ Dachau 1933

    I visited Dachau back in 1979 while assigned to an artillery battalion in Hanau. My father was visiting and, while staying down in Garmisch-Partenkirchen, we decided to make the drive up to visit the camp. It was a warm, sunny late spring day. We barely walked through the gate when my wife stopped dead and said "I can't go any further. This place feels too oppressive." She took my son, and walked back through the gate and stayed at the car while my dad and I toured the camp. It was a very dark experience - both my father and I also noted the change in the atmosphere after we entered the gate. The book I bought from the shop there remains on my bookshelf.

    In 1985-87, I was assigned to an ROTC unit as a captain. I worked for a LTC who told me that her father commanded a unit that was stationed in the Dachau after the war and that she believed that they lived in the house that had housed the Dachau camp commander during the war. I think he was an artillery colonel and can't remember his last name - and only remember her married name.
    MarkV
    COL, U.S. Army (Ret.)

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