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Papa Eicke

Article about: Fantastic thread Woske. Advanced digital magnification analysis is a tool I have been using with the detailed study of both real and fake SS decals for the past 4 years and there are obvious

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Papa Eicke

    Quote by gerrit View Post
    'm new here at this forum but i'm well aware of the situation that this thread created.
    I've seen it on other forums as well.
    Often it's not the words or the message but the way things are said that offend people.
    Often the reply is with a certain rudeness instead of bringing the "bad" message (or what you believe as your truth) on a polite way.
    explain why you think that your right, instead of just saying: It's a fake.
    I come here to learn, to grow in knowledge, not to be pissed of, lots of us have wifes for that.
    So i guess it's not the "Is it a Fake question" that bothers , but the way the reply is made.
    Lets be polite and share knowledge......
    If you re-read the previous posts, you will see that an explanation of my opinion has been provided. Can you also please indicate which particular reply you consider as rude.
    Several people have correctly indicated that we are here to learn, but that gets somewhat difficult when one important party refuses to participate in the debate.
    Personally, I would much rather this thread stayed on track and discussed Theodor Eicke rather than the rights or wrongs of differing opinions and the way they are expressed..
    Regards,
    Woske.
    Last edited by Woske; 10-28-2010 at 10:23 AM.

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  3. #42
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    Default Re: Papa Eicke

    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    Well said and my sincere thanks.
    Let me also say that I am not a militaria dealer, and have no commercial interest other than the occasional sale of a sole object from my own collection.

    My chief goal is to learn more, which happens rather more seldom than in the past.
    F-B, I echo the comments made by sitges and hpl. I enjoy reading your posts. They are written in a polite and professional manner and I find them quite informative. I learn something new each time I visit this forum. I know this is off-topic from the original subject of this thread. However, I felt it needed to be said. Thanks. Cass

  4. #43

    Default Re: Papa Eicke

    OK, it is time to take a breath and think about this. Robert H posted something he found and he is the only one to have handled it closely enough to know if the Eicke is a signature or not. I would believe Robert H has had enough experience to determine if something is signed by pen or printed (or stamped). I cannot debate something I have not seen in hand and certainly not a signature that is behind glass, from a digital image.

    I appreciate the knowledge that is held by numerous members here. Losing one knowledgeable collector is a losss to all of us. Let us take a break and just think about the words we choose. As my friend F-B has said, it is often not the message, but the delivery of said message, that turns a question into a critisism.

    Bob Hritz

  5. #44

    Default Re: Papa Eicke

    Thanks to colleague Hritz for his intervention here in this space. We are always grateful for his wisdom and judicious insights great and small.
    damit, basta.

  6. #45

    Default Re: Papa Eicke

    Thanks for the kind words, indeed. All the best to you.
    damit, basta.

  7. #46
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    Default Re: Papa Eicke

    Hi Woske,

    i'm talking about a trend in general, thats why i didn't quote anything.
    I think you gave well balanced replies without any rudeness.
    Sorry if i gave you that idea .
    I think in this case his disappointment about the fact that his stuff might not be the real thing, was the last drip for him to come to a point where he said goodbye.
    If you start reading this post you can feel the friction build up.......his frustration cant be alone from this tread.
    So i spoke "generally".

    Ger

  8. #47
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    Default Re: Papa Eicke

    Quote by gerrit View Post
    Hi Woske,

    i'm talking about a trend in general, thats why i didn't quote anything.
    I think you gave well balanced replies without any rudeness.
    Sorry if i gave you that idea .
    I think in this case his disappointment about the fact that his stuff might not be the real thing, was the last drip for him to come to a point where he said goodbye.
    If you start reading this post you can feel the friction build up.......his frustration cant be alone from this tread.
    So i spoke "generally".

    Ger
    Understood and I fully appreciate your comments.
    Woske.

  9. #48
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    Default Re: Papa Eicke

    I like this forum, and you are right, unless you are standing in front of, holding,smelling and in the presence of an item, a photo really does not do a lot of justice. I think more knowledgeable people are able to give opinion on an item, from the photo, the way it looks, is constructed etc, and the poster can take the advice or not. this forum should not degenerate into a "is this real" thing and then have people take posts to heart. It should be a area to show items, gain opinion, discusss and learn

  10. #49
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    Default Re: Papa Eicke

    Quote by Bob Hritz View Post
    OK, it is time to take a breath and think about this. Robert H posted something he found and he is the only one to have handled it closely enough to know if the Eicke is a signature or not. I would believe Robert H has had enough experience to determine if something is signed by pen or printed (or stamped). I cannot debate something I have not seen in hand and certainly not a signature that is behind glass, from a digital image.
    Bob Hritz
    Bob,
    Luckily the original images posted are sufficient to recognise the tell-tale signs of a stamped signature, although I would prefer to see good sharp close-ups in order to confirm the doubts. With todays photographic technology it is possible to determine if an example is handwritten or not without handling it. I have provided numerous such assessments for insurance companies, auction houses, dealers and collectors around the world using sharp close-up images. As Robert did not take the opportunity to provide necessary images to confirm either way, I referred this link to a number of experienced autograph people who, to a man, all said the same thing. "Looks like a stamped signature, but closer examination is needed to be sure."
    Not wishing to rely solely on the provided image of the signature, we also discussed the actual framing. Here the image provided is also sufficient to form an opinion. We agreed that the frame itself is almost certainly pre-1950, but the actual mounting and framing is post-war and most probably no more than 10 years in age. In reaching this conclusion, it was noted that there is insufficient oxidization to the nails for a piece supposedly over 60 years of age. There is also no discoloration of the tape or board backing.
    Therefore, I remain convinced that the signature is, in fact, stamped and the assembly of the piece is post-war, most probably constructed in recent years. As for militaria dealer experience in recognizing a stamped or handsigned signature, this is not the first occasion where I have knowledge of autographed items being sold by experienced and well respected militaria dealers, only to discover subsequently that the signature was stamped or printed. As stated before, I am willing to be proved wrong in this case, but without more evidence, I'll stick to my original assessment....it's an apparently stamped signature on a postcard which has been put into an old frame in recent years.
    Regards,
    Woske.

  11. #50

    Default Re: Papa Eicke

    Sadly, this type of negativity is what kills the interest for many of us who are just here to learn and share. I agree that there is a trend towards adversarialism in these forums of late. Sorry to see such a good member leave over a disagreement. I am in no way implying that anyone here has been rude, but there is a sense of hostility. I hope that Robert H can be persuaded to remain here or return if he is already gone.

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