Article about: Fantastic thread Woske. Advanced digital magnification analysis is a tool I have been using with the detailed study of both real and fake SS decals for the past 4 years and there are obvious
Sadly, this type of negativity is what kills the interest for many of us who are just here to learn and share.
Sorry, but I am at a loss as to how this is construed as negativity. How else do you expect people to learn? Would you prefer that all sorts of nonsense is posted on a forum and only positive things be said? Robert posted something here which he believed to be real and some others agree with him. I respect that. Myself and some others have serious doubts and we gave our opinions which Robert regarded as "a big joke." I have provided a reasonable and measured argument as to why I believe the Eicke picture is wrong, giving reasons for my doubts. And for that I am castigated for being negative and a reason why you consider your interest is being killed. Nobody has accused anyone of dishonesty; all it is, is a discussion about a difference of opinion over the originality of a piece. Where is the negativity or crime in that? Would I prefer a perfect world where everything posted on a forum or bought and sold in the collecting world is 100% authentic? Of course I would, but people have to take a reality check....this hobby/profession is riddled with those who are trying to make a quick buck from honest collectors and dealers. Inexperienced collectors often ask for opinions online regarding the authenticity of an item, and so they should. It is all part of the learning curve. Are you now suggesting that comments should only be made where an item is obviously genuine? Sorry, but I couldn't disagree with you more. We are all here to discuss, share knowledge and learn, but the first lesson is to take the rough with the smooth.
Woske.
Sorry you misinterpreted my post and took it personally Woske as it was not directed at anybody in particular and certainly does not say that debate is discouraged or should not be engaged in. I give up. People seem to be touchy about the smallest things here lately which is one reason I have posted less lately. Peace.
Sorry you misinterpreted my post and took it personally Woske as it was not directed at anybody in particular and certainly does not say that debate is discouraged or should not be engaged in. I give up. People seem to be touchy about the smallest things here lately which is one reason I have posted less lately. Peace.
I am sorry if I misinterpreted your comments. Hopefully, readers of this thread realise that there is no underlying motive other than to arrive at the truth, for the benefit of the collecting community.
Woske.
Robert H posted something he found and he is the only one to have handled it closely enough to know if the Eicke is a signature or not. I would believe Robert H has had enough experience to determine if something is signed by pen or printed (or stamped). I cannot debate something I have not seen in hand and certainly not a signature that is behind glass, from a digital image.
Bob Hritz
by Woske
As for militaria dealer experience in recognizing a stamped or handsigned signature, this is not the first occasion where I have knowledge of autographed items being sold by experienced and well respected militaria dealers, only to discover subsequently that the signature was stamped or printed. Woske.
In support of my statement here, I had a quick look on the web. I found the following example which is being currently offered for sale as an original hand signed autograph. It is the signature of Richard Walther Darre and is a portrait postcard by the firm of E. Bieber in Berlin. This particular firm produced hundreds of this postcard with printed signatures of Darre. Today it is the most common form in which Darre’s signature can be found. This example is being offered as originally hand signed, allegedly with a COA from a well known autograph auction house.
On close examination of the internet image, the signature appears to be printed. There are several reasons why this conclusion can be reached. Bearing in mind that we are working on an internet image and not a good quality hi-res scan or digital photograph, I enlarged the image as best I can.
In ink handwritten signatures there are crossovers where one stroke of the nib crosses over another, producing a thicker ink deposit at the point of intersection. No crossovers are evident in this image.
Again, in ink handwritten signatures, there is variable ink depositing along the stroke of the nib. Usually, the outer edges of the stroke are slightly thicker than the centre. This is caused by the construction of the pen nib which is in two halves at the point of contact and by pressure applied. In this example, there is no evidence of such uneven ink distribution.
At numerous points, there is indication of “lifting.” This occurs when the printing plate or stamp is lifted away from the surface. There remains tiny blank areas where the printing ink has not adhered to the surface. These are sometimes also referred to as “bubbles” or “pockets.” They are not always obvious to the naked eye, but are easily discernable under magnification. I have indicated where this occurs on this particular example and I would suggest that there are others which would be more evident under magnification.
This postcard was commonly produced with a printed signature and I am confident that this particular example is one such postcard. 100% certainty can of course only be confirmed by physical examination. However, it has allegedly passed through the hands of a specialist autograph auction house and a militaria dealer who both declare it to be handwritten. I would challenge that assumption, but in no way wish to cast doubt upon the integrity of either the auction house or dealer. It is their expertise on this item that I am questioning and, as always, I am willing to alter my views if the contrary can be established. This is just my opinion and I leave it up to you to decide for yourselves. I thought by posting this example here, it might be of help to anyone who wishes to know more about autographs.
Regards,
Woske.
My name is Tony and I have posted some Rochus Misch autographs I have picked up., on another thread. Now my question is, and it is silly, but if you don't ask you don't know. Is it possible for a person siganture to change over time? The example I would use is Foo0tball playes, who sign hundreds of Autographs, either at a desk of on the side lines. Obviously a quickly signed autograph on the side lines would look different to one signed, say seated at a desk. In the case of Herr Misch, he would have been signing autographs for decades, so would his early signatures differ from the ones i have of him as a 93 year old. I am just curious and I am not asking you to authenticate anything here as I am sure from the autographs I have they are fair dinkum.
If I am asking the silliest question in the world please tell me so.
Of course your question is not silly. A person's signature can change for several reasons. Usually, age is the most common, but personal taste is another. One might decide to alter the style of a signature just on a personal whim. It's not unknown for someone to have two different signatures. Expediency is another factor. The point you raise is valid where a person has a large number of signatures to deliver. So the simple answer is yes, it is possible for a signature to alter over time.
Woske.
Thanks for the interesting analysis. I am sure our readers would profit from a tutorial in this material with further illustrations. Such would help this site and counteract the phenomena I deplored in my earlier posts.
Thanks for that Woske. Signatures have always frightened me to death. I have never bought one for fear of getting burned. Learning about them is very interesting.
Re: Papa Eicke
by tampalam
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