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Question Allgemeine SS cuff title 5

Article about: Thanks to our leader, Wim Saris, for a wonderful, complete answer.

  1. #61

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    Thanks to all that did read my posts in 2013. Hope I can eventually
    make some new (great) posts in 2014. I hope I am able to do, also
    in other fields, as SS is normally not a field of interest to me. Thank
    you for all of your interest in TR uniform-knowledge!!!

    For all: have a safe crossing into 2014. Outside it sounds like
    we already have 24.00 and the New Year has started. Fireworks are
    all around of me and we have 10.00 in the morning. It sounds like
    WWIII has started.........

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    The time is now 12.30 and the fireworks is even worse! Where do all
    those kids and younger guys get the money for that? They could better
    safe their money and start TR collecting. That hobby also gives so now
    and then pretty "fireworks"..........................

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    Here comes another BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!
    The guy screams: "einen guten RUTSCH ins Neue Jahr........(HAPPY NEW YEAR)."
    (mommy at home thinks: "hope my "Bubli" is okay"; daddy thinks: "that damned
    handgrenade" and puts one his artifical leg. "Verdammte scheisse"!; his sister
    Trude thinks: "Ich liebe "Onkel" Adolf für immer und Ewig").

    My last contribution for 2013....: the man who is loved by Trude:

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    Now 14.15: no changes. Still "war" outside and so it will continue until 24.00 hours.

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    Last edited by Wilhelm Saris; 12-31-2013 at 02:22 PM.
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

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  3. #62

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    For easier reference, I'll try to assemble the above information as well as data found in other documents scattered across various threads into a timeline.

    Many thanks to those who had provided the respective documents, especially Friedrich-Berthold, Wim Saris, d'alquen and Hugo Rietzel.

    As this is already a rather complicated subject, I have focused on the cuffbands for the "regular" Standarten, Sturmbanne and Stürme of the Allgemeine SS, omitting the specialist formations (signals, motor, engineer and equestrian formations), the higher organizational levels (Abschnitte, Oberabschnitte, Ämter/Hauptämter, Reichsführung) and various special groups (honorary officers, "z.V." officers etc.).

    For the sake of simplicity, I have used the term "silver" throughout; where appropriate, it can also mean "aluminum".

    Here we go. Corrections of any errors and the addition of supplementary data is, of course, welcome:


    ------------------



    I. 1931 (Source: SS-Befehl no. 22, dated 4 Feb. 1931):

    1. Commander of a Brigade [Brigadeführer] and his senior staff personnel [Oberstab eines Brigadeführers, i.e. adjutant, brigade medical officer, brigade paymaster]:
    Cuffband with the Arabic number of the Brigade and silver borders.

    2. Other, lower-level staff personnel of a Brigadeführer [Unterstab eines Brigadeführers]:
    Cuffband with the Arabic number of the Brigade and black/silver borders.

    3. Commander of a Standarte and his staff [Standartenführer und sein Stab]:
    Blank cuffband with colored borders identifying the Standarte (see # 5).

    4. Personnel of a Sturm:
    Cuffband with the Arabic number of the Sturm and colored borders identifying the Standarte (see # 5).

    5. Standarte colors for the cuffband borders:

    I. Standarte = Green
    II. Standarte = Dark blue
    III. Standarte = Red
    IV. Standarte = Light blue
    V. Standarte = White

    Note: At this period, the Stürme were numbered consecutively within each of the Standarten. The nomenclature for the SS' organizational levels/units would later change.


    ------------------


    II. 1933 (Source: Order of the RFSS dated 17 March 1933):

    1. Officers on the staff of a Standarte [Unmittelbar zum Stab einer SS-Standarte gehörende SS-Führer]:
    Cuffband with the Arabic number of the Standarte and silver borders.

    2. Men on the staff of a Standarte:
    Cuffband with the Arabic number of the Standarte and white borders.

    3. All personnel on the staff of a Sturmbann [SS-Männer und SS-Dienstgrade, die unmittelbar zum Sturmbann-Stab gehören]:
    Blank cuffband with colored borders identifying the Sturmbann (see # 5).

    4. Personnel of a Sturm:
    Cuffband with the Arabic number of the Sturm (or if appropriate, the name of the Sturm in block letters) and colored borders identifying the Sturmbann (see # 5).

    5. Sturmbann colors for the cuffband borders:

    Sturmbann I = Green
    Sturmbann II = Dark blue
    Sturmbann III = Red
    Sturmbann IV = Light blue
    Sturmbann V = Yellow
    Sturmbann VI = White

    Note: At this period, the Stürme were numbered consecutively within each of the Sturmbanne.


    ------------------


    III. 1934 (Source: RZM letter dated 27 March 1934):

    1. Officers on the staff of a Standarte [Unmittelbar zum Stab einer SS-Standarte gehörende SS-Führer]:
    Cuffband with the Arabic number of the Standarte and silver borders.

    2. Men on the staff of a Standarte:
    Cuffband with the Arabic number of the Standarte and white borders.
    [All white-bordered cuff titles were eventually changed to aluminum borders (RZM circular of 17 Nov. 1934).]

    3. All personnel on the staff of a Sturmbann [SS-Männer und SS-Dienstgrade, die unmittelbar zum Sturmbann-Stab gehören]:
    Blank cuffband with colored borders identifying the Sturmbann (see # 5).

    4. Personnel of a Sturm:
    Cuffband with the Arabic number of the Sturm (or if appropriate, the name of the Sturm in block letters) and colored borders identifying the Sturmbann (see # 5).

    5. Sturmbann colors for the cuffband borders:

    Sturmbann I = Green
    Sturmbann II = Dark blue
    Sturmbann III = Red
    Sturmbann IV = Light blue


    Note: Now, the Stürme were numbered consecutively from no. 1 to no. 12 across the first 3 Sturmbanne within a Standarte. The Fourth Sturmbann became the Reserve-Sturmbann with the Reserve-Stürme numbered consecutively from no. 1 to 4:

    Sturmbann I = Stürme 1 through 4
    Sturmbann II = Stürme 5 through 8
    Sturmbann III = Stürme 9 through 12
    Sturmbann IV = Reserve-Stürme 1 through 4


    ------------------


    IV. 1934 (continued) (Source: SS Price list dated 15 December 1934):

    Later in 1934, the above was modified:

    3. (addendum) For personnel on the staff of the Reserve-Sturmbann: cuffband with the word "Reserve" and light blue borders identifying the Reserve-Sturmbann (see no. 5).

    4. (addendum): For personnel of the Reserve-Stürme: cuffband with the word "Reserve" followed by the Arabic number of the Reserve-Sturm and light blue borders identifying the Reserve-Sturmbann (see # 5).

    5. Sturmbann colors for the cuffband borders:

    Sturmbann I = Green
    Sturmbann II = Dark blue
    Sturmbann III = Red
    Sturmbann IV = Dark red
    Reserve-Sturmbann = Light blue


    Note: Now, the Stürme were numbered consecutively from no. 1 to no. 16 across the 4 active Sturmbanne within a Standarte. The Reserve-Sturmbann was taken out of this numbering sequence and consisted of the Reserve-Stürme numbered consecutively from no. 1 to 4:

    Sturmbann I = Stürme 1 through 4
    Sturmbann II = Stürme 5 through 8
    Sturmbann III = Stürme 9 through 12
    Sturmbann IV = Stürme 13 through 16
    Reserve-Sturmbann = Reserve-Stürme 1 through 4


    ------------------


    V. 1937 (Source: RFSS order of June 1937):

    1. Officers of a Standarte ranked Standartenführer or higher [Führer mit Dienstgrad vom Standartenführer aufwärts in der Standarte]:
    Cuffband with the Arabic number of the Standarte and silver borders.

    2. Men and officers on the staff of a Standarte [Männer und Führer der Standarten-Stäbe]:
    Blank cuffband with silver borders.

    3. Men and officers on the staff of a Sturmbann [Männer und Führer der Sturmbann-Stäbe]:
    Cuffband with the Roman number of the Sturmbann and silver borders. For men and officers on the staff of a Reserve-Sturmbann: Blank cuffband with silver borders.

    4. Personnel of a Sturm:
    Cuffband with the Arabic number of the Sturm (or if appropriate, the arabic number followed by the name of the Sturm in block letters) and silver borders.


    Notes: Colored borders identifying the Sturmbanne were now discontinued, but were used up over a prolonged period of time. The abolishment of the colored borders now necessitated the display of the Roman Sturmbann number on the cuffbands of Sturmbann staff personnel. These cuffbands (with numbers I through IV) were the same ones as those worn by personnel on the staff of the Abschnitte I through IV.

    Wear of the Standarte number was now restricted to personnel ranked Standartenführer or higher, i.e. those who wore their rank insignia on both collar patches. This made sense, as prior to that, the number had been displayed redundantly on both the collar patches and cuffbands of personnel on the staff of a Standarte. (Although, of course, the same held true for personnel on the staff of an Abschnitt.)

    Members of Standarten which had been bestowed with a name/honor title wore an additional cuffband [Zusatz-Ärmelstreifen] bearing that name above their other cuffband.
    Last edited by HPL2008; 01-01-2014 at 11:41 AM.

  4. #63

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    Thank you for making it much easier for the layman to understand

    Nick
    "In all my years as a soldier, I have never seen men fight so hard." - SS Obergruppenfuhrer Wilhelm Bittrich - Arnhem

  5. #64

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    Not to complicate matters but as an addendum, in 1934 a cuff band with the number 5 and dark blue (dunkelblau) borders could also indicate a member of one of the three Politischen Bereitschaften. Each Standarte was made up of 3 Sturmbanne comprised of Stuerme numbered 1-12.
    d'Alquen

  6. #65

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    Thanks to Andreas for his yeoman work. Happy new year to you all, and happy cuffs as well as rejoice in the immortality of turgid, bureaucratic German across the gulf of time. I sure wish I knew all of this when I first found a black enlisted uniform with the alu cuff title in the year 1979 and was flummoxed by it.
    And thanks to Wim for all his heroic work for collectors, generally, as well as his generous and exemplary support of this site.

    2014 will be the year for war and memory, whereby we here can do our part for education and enlightenment.
    damit, basta.

  7. #66
    ?

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    Thank you HPL2008 for the translation. Thanks also to Mr. Saris, d'Alquen, Hugo and of course F-B. I hope the new year will bring happiness and success to all the fine members of this forum. Thanks also to our host Ade for bringing together such a stellar group.
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  8. #67

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    A Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	793834 Sturmband for the 2d Sturmbann, 5 Sturm. That is, a black cuff title with a five on it.
    damit, basta.

  9. #68

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    what a beauty
    i always wanted black tunic as everyone in the hobby

    even considering studing medecine so i be welthy enought to get it

  10. #69

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ID:	875818For me this is no hobby.

    For me these things are foetid woolens and part of my profession.

    And, you will earn more in your career if you check your spelling.
    damit, basta.

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