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Rarity Compared - The Waffen SS Officer Schirmmuetze vs. The Waffen SS NCO Schirmmuetze

Article about: After reading countless threads on the WAF and WRF for the past two years, this is my first post anywhere. I am curious about something that more experienced collectors will better understan

  1. #11

    Default Re: Rarity Compared - The Waffen SS Officer Schirmmuetze vs. The Waffen SS NCO Schirmmuetze

    There are several salient points here: a.) The visual world of Nazi propaganda formed the basis for much of our taste, as well as the death cult Kitsch employed by Himmler and the others in the headwear, which did little more than rework a symbology that was current in state and society of the era;. b.) An officer is of higher rank than an NCO, even though, in practice, NCOs had considerable rank and power in the era; c.) taste is manipulated and dictated today by certain blabber mouths on these fora, some of whom know nothing about the subject and the III. Reich. But these savants and know it alls dictate taste, which is usually their own. The cult of "erel" and the "scull" madness and crimped prongs and endless palaver are but symptoms of a little caste that manipulates a dullard public. d.) grey SS caps are really all quite rare, and the NCO ones likely got all used up; they also emerged later and seldom survive in good shape; e.) the really rare cap is one with some markings, i.e. of the 193X-1940 or so period; f.) there is no accounting for taste.
    I collect black SS officer caps, actually, but do have some grey caps, and one NCO grey cap.
    I cannot account for taste, really, as much of it is Freudian projection.
    In any case, you should collect what interests you and your expectations of the insights and sophistication of others should be adjusted accordingly.
    damit, basta.

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  3. #12

    Default Re: Rarity Compared - The Waffen SS Officer Schirmmuetze vs. The Waffen SS NCO Schirmmuetze

    There are those who scoff at Allgemeine SS uniforms for hum drum units, preferring instead to collect embellished, redecorated SSTV or SSVT uniforms that, in the harsh light of day, are often reworked or too good to be true.
    I would rather have a real black SS uniform of some anonymous unit than some proto- or semi fantasy piece of Eicke's staff or something else that is far too improbable to be remotely likely.....
    Such arises from a half century of experience.
    However, to each his own, really, and happy collecting to all.
    PS. The Paul Kaps with all the embellishments is a very refined thing.
    damit, basta.

  4. #13
    ?

    Default Re: Rarity Compared - The Waffen SS Officer Schirmmuetze vs. The Waffen SS NCO Schirmmuetze

    Not sure I understand? you say that " an officers cap would more likely have been used in the field"
    Care to explain?

  5. #14

    Default Re: Rarity Compared - The Waffen SS Officer Schirmmuetze vs. The Waffen SS NCO Schirmmuetze

    I appreciate and value all of the comments and words of wisdom from more experienced collectors. So, I suppose like a lot of things in life, it is about demand and markets and people's perceptions of what they deem desirable/collectible. Friedrich-Berthold's remarks concerning "reworked" and "embellished" Waffen SS uniforms was intriguing to me. Back in the '60s I don't recall seeing that much SS material offered for sale. Sure, there was some, but it wasn't like today where one finds tunics and complete sets galore on this or that dealer's website. One site has new material practically weekly! I know the internet has changed things and we can find more of anything, but where was this material back in the '60s? I'll admit I'm probably somewhat out of touch with today's militaria market, but how on earth can there be so much Waffen SS material available? How many "unissued" tunics can there be? Common sense tells me that all of it can't be real, which is scary for someone like me who is serious and wants to collect. It is almost as if someone somewhere (or maybe several someones) is out there just making this stuff from the ground up in order to constantly supply a hungry collector's market. Or, maybe I'm just too cynical? Thanks again to all who replied to my query.

  6. #15

    Default Re: Rarity Compared - The Waffen SS Officer Schirmmuetze vs. The Waffen SS NCO Schirmmuetze

    Happy hats to all and may your collection grow without the agonies that accompany the globalized, digital-ized and pixelated present.
    damit, basta.

  7. #16

    Default Re: Rarity Compared - The Waffen SS Officer Schirmmuetze vs. The Waffen SS NCO Schirmmuetze

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Untitled 2.jpg 
Views:	99 
Size:	85.1 KB 
ID:	492322This cap did I own in the year 1974 or so....long gone save for this indistinct image.
    damit, basta.

  8. #17

    Default Re: Rarity Compared - The Waffen SS Officer Schirmmuetze vs. The Waffen SS NCO Schirmmuetze

    Quote by BenVK View Post
    Not sure I understand? you say that " an officers cap would more likely have been used in the field"
    Care to explain?
    NCO's are with the troops on the ground and would have worn combat head dress and to carry around a peaked cap in their kit would have been a burden. Always exceptions to the norm.
    Regards
    René

  9. #18

    Default Re: Rarity Compared - The Waffen SS Officer Schirmmuetze vs. The Waffen SS NCO Schirmmuetze

    Quote by sadietex View Post
    I appreciate and value all of the comments and words of wisdom from more experienced collectors. So, I suppose like a lot of things in life, it is about demand and markets and people's perceptions of what they deem desirable/collectible. Friedrich-Berthold's remarks concerning "reworked" and "embellished" Waffen SS uniforms was intriguing to me. Back in the '60s I don't recall seeing that much SS material offered for sale. Sure, there was some, but it wasn't like today where one finds tunics and complete sets galore on this or that dealer's website. One site has new material practically weekly! I know the internet has changed things and we can find more of anything, but where was this material back in the '60s? I'll admit I'm probably somewhat out of touch with today's militaria market, but how on earth can there be so much Waffen SS material available? How many "unissued" tunics can there be? Common sense tells me that all of it can't be real, which is scary for someone like me who is serious and wants to collect. It is almost as if someone somewhere (or maybe several someones) is out there just making this stuff from the ground up in order to constantly supply a hungry collector's market. Or, maybe I'm just too cynical? Thanks again to all who replied to my query.
    Actually, I mean black SS uniforms of the SSTV and SSVT and not really grey uniforms.
    I have my catalogs from sources forty years ago, and there was no market then in the sense of the present structure. It was highly disjointed, really, in a way I have described in many of my posts.
    Some material is faked, but some material is real, and quite real and also driven by this concentration and acceleration of a world wide market, with far more pull than in the past.
    There is also a cottage industry of fakers, but others have spent weeks and weeks posting on this subject, and I would ask you to read those posts.
    My goal is to examine real material.

    - - Updated - -

    Bob Coleman and Bob Hritz can speak to all of this better than can I.
    damit, basta.

  10. #19

    Default Re: Rarity Compared - The Waffen SS Officer Schirmmuetze vs. The Waffen SS NCO Schirmmuetze

    I will read the posts about the "cottage industry of fakers." Many thanks!

  11. #20

    Default Re: Rarity Compared - The Waffen SS Officer Schirmmuetze vs. The Waffen SS NCO Schirmmuetze

    One nice thing about the past, however, was the vanity, envy and greed of others were on a more tractable, reduced scale than today, and you also got to see the whites of their eyes in a dust up. Such is not the case today.
    All trade in this material is accompanied by an information operations campaign that clutters up any honest attempt at enlightenment as well as the break neck speed with which we exchange spit on a global scale.
    In many ways, I rather prefer the past, as it allowed me, at least, to reflect. I like to reflect and think versus being drawn into these tit for tat things the results of which duplicate each other and surely have a very coarsening effect on most parties. The volume of disinformation, misinformation and the need to de clutter the path ways are vastly greater, and such is enervating and has driven away some very sound persons from this pursuit.
    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 03-30-2013 at 06:17 AM.
    damit, basta.

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