RSHA Abt. IV?

[MM1985]

I got this interesting Picture a few days ago. Am i correct that this might be a member of the RSHA Abt. IV?

The Picture is dated 24.6.43

[Friedrich-Berthold]

No, he is from the Abschnitt staff. We have to look at the 1937 reform of the badges. A very fine picture of your very fine pictures. Do you have that uniform?

[Friedrich-Berthold]

SS-Abschnitt IV

Mar 8th 2014
SS-Abschnitt IV

Errichtet: 00.11.1931
Sitz: Braunschweig ----------------------------------------------- (Quelle: T175-R574)


a) Ereignisse :

Stärkemeldungen:
31.01.1938 -- Stärkemeldung SS: 5491 ----------------------------------------------------------------- (Quelle: DU-STJB-38)
30.06.1938 -- Stärkemeldung SS: 5712 ----------------------------------------------------------------- (Quelle: DU-STJB-38)
31.12.1938 -- Stärkemeldung SS: 5853 ----------------------------------------------------------------- (Quelle: DU-STJB-38)


b) Gliederung :

Unterstellung: SS-Oberführerbereich "Ost"

01.03.1932 SS-Gruppe Ost
10.08.1933 SS-Gruppe Nordwest
16.11.1933 SS-Oberabschnitt Nordwest
01.04.1936 SS-Oberabschnitt Mitte

Ihm unterstellt:
1931 Standarte 4, 12, 17, 24, 28
1938 Standarte 12, 49, 51
_________________________________


c) Stellenbesetzung :

Führer:

Dietrich, Josef; Oberführer ------------------------------------------------------------- F. IV --------------- 11.07.1931-01.08.1931
Heyer, Wilhelm; Standartenführer --------------------------------------------------- F. IV --------------- 01.08.1931-20.09.1931
Jeckeln, Friedrich; Oberführer -------------------------------------------------------- F. IV --------------- 20.09.1931-30.01.1933
Maack, Berthold; Standartenführer ------------------------------------------------- F. IV --------------- 30.01.1933-10.08.1933
Kaul, Kurt; Standartenführer ---------------------------------------------------------- F. IV --------------- 10.08.1933-28.02.1934
Zenner, Carl; Oberführer ---------------------------------------------------------------- F. IV --------------- 05.04.1934-21.01.1935 (4)
Sattler, Carl; Standartenführer -------------------------------------------------------- F. IV --------------- 21.01.1935-20.06.1935
Benson, Kurt; Oberführer --------------------------------------------------------------- F. IV --------------- 20.06.1935-14.11.1938 (1)
Jungclaus, Richard; Standartenführer --------------------------------------------- F. IV --------------- 14.11.1938-30.09.1941 (1)
Jungclaus, Richard; Oberführer ------------------------------------------------------ F. IV --------------- 01.10.1941-01.04.1942 (1)
Heldmann, Constantin; Standartenführer ----------------------------------------- F. IV --------------- 01.02.1943-00.00.0000 (1)

(Quelle: DWA)


Stabsführer:
DAL
------- Gille, Herbert; Untersturmführer -------------- m.d.W.d.G.b. ----- Stabsf. IV --------------- 20.04.1933-09.04.1934 (5)
1934 Schöne, Helmut; Sturmhauptführer ------------------------------------ Stabsf. IV --------------- 00.00.0000-07.01.1935 (2)
------- Fürstenberg, Walter; Hauptsturmführer ------------------------------ Stabsf. IV --------------- 07.01.1935-00.00.0000 (2)
------- Oberg, Karl-Albrecht; Standartenführer ------------------------------- Stabsf. IV --------------- 01.01.1937-01.10.1938 (1)
------- Paul, Hans; Hauptsturmführer ------------------------------------------- Stabsf. IV --------------- 01.10.1938-29.01.1943 (1)
------- Paul, Hans; Sturmbannführer -------------------------------------------- Stabsf. IV --------------- 30.01.1943-15.04.1944 (1)


Adjutant u. Personalreferent

Moder, Paul; Untersturmführer --------------------- m.d.W.d.G.b. des Adjutanten ------------- 01.09.1931-20.09.1931 (3)
Rübsaamen, Erich; Untersturmführer --------------------------------------------------------------------- 10.03.1935-19.04.1936 (1)
Rübsaamen, Erich; Obersturmführer ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 20.04.1936-20.06.1937 (1)
Stichnoth, Wilhelm; Obersturmführer --------------------------------------------------------------------- 20.06.1937-21.03.1938 (1)
Freudenthalm, Hans; Hauptsturmführer ------------------------------------------------------------------ 21.03.1938-01.12.1938 (1)
Burböck, Obersturmführer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 01.08.1939-06.01.1940 (1)


Ausb. u. Org. Referent

Paul, Hans; Hauptsturmführer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 00.00.0000-01.10.1938 (1)
Langreder, Artur; Sturmbannführer -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 01.03.1939-01.07.1939 (1)


Gas- u. Luftschutzreferent

Heitmüller, Erich; Unterscharführer ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10.09.1936-00.00.0000 (1)


Rechtsberater

Dr. Riemenschneider, Hermann; Untersturmführer ---------------------------------------------------- 20.08.1936-25.01.1937 (1)
Biester, Paul; Oberscharführer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 01.08.1937-08.11.1937 (1)
Biester, Paul; Untersturmführer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 09.11.1937-29.01.1943 (1)
Biester, Paul; Obersturmführer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30.01.1943-00.00.0000 (1)


Sportreferent

Kugel, Max; Scharführer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10.09.1936-10.09.1938 (1)
Kugel, Max; Untersturmführer --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11.09.1938-00.00.0000 (1)


Pressereferent

Seelemeyer, Paul; Oberscharführer -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 01.05.1936-01.08.1937 (1)
Dr. Gregory Frh.von, Karl-Alexander; Staffel-Unterscharführer -------------------------------------- 01.08.1937-11.09.1937 (1)
Dr. Gregory Frh.von, Karl-Alexander; Untersturmführer ----------------------------------------------- 12.09.1937-01.07.1938 (1)


Fürsorgereferent

Schmidt, Heinrich; Scharführer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10.09.1936-11.09.1938 (1)
Blohm, Wilhelm; Untersturmführer --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11.09.1938-08.11.1941 (1)
Blohm, Wilhelm; Obersturmführer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 09.11.1941-00.00.0000 (1)


Verwaltungsführer

May, Werner; Untersturmführer --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 05.11.1936-08.11.1935 (1)
May, Werner; Obersturmführer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 09.11.1935-19.04.1937 (1)
May, Werner; Hauptsturmführer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20.04.1937-09.09.1939 (1)
May, Werner; Sturmbannführer --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10.09.1939-00.00.0000 (1)


Führer San.Abt. IV

Dr. Sack, Albert; Sturmbannführer ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15.02.1936-00.00.0000 (1)


Führer Ausbildungsstab San.Abt. IV

Kast, Hermann; Hauptsturmführer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15.02.1936-00.00.0000 (1)


Führer San.Sturm IV

Fuhrberg, Arthur; Obersturmführer ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 00.00.0000-19.04.1937 (1)
Fuhrberg, Arthur; Hauptsturmführer --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20.04.1937-01.03.1939 (1)


Führer im Stab (aktiv - Dienststellung z.Zt. nicht bekannt)
DAL
1934 Sack, Dr. Albert; Sturmhauptführer ---------------------------------------- Stab IV
1934 Zehring, Arno; Sturmhauptführer ------------------------------------------- Stab IV
1934 Geyr, Gisbert Freiherr von; Obersturmführer --------------------------- Stab IV
1934 Eickhoff, Heinrich; Obersturmführer --------------------------------------- Stab IV
1934 Wendt, Johann; Sturmführer ------------------------------------------------- Stab IV
1935 Dr. Sack, Albert; Sturmhauptführer ---------------------------------------- Stab IV
1935 Peter, Friedrich; Hauptsturmführer ----------------------------------------- Stab IV
1935 Dreßler, Ernst; Obersturmführer -------------------------------------------- Stab IV
1935 Wendt, Hans; Untersturmführer --------------------------------------------- Stab IV
1935 Neurath, Heinrich; Untersturmführer --------------------------------------- Stab IV
1936 Paul, Hans; Obersturmführer ------------------------------------------------- Stab IV
1937 Paul, Hans; Hauptsturmführer ----------------------------------------------- Stab IV
1938 Oberg, Karl; Standartenführer ------------------------------------------------ Stab IV
1938 Dr. Friedrich, Adolf, Untersturmführer -------------------------------------- Stab IV
1938 Kugel, Max; Untersturmführer ------------------------------------------------ Stab IV
1942b Dr. Sack, Albert; Sturmbannführer ---------------------------------------- Stab IV
1942b May, Werner; Sturmbannführer --------------------------------------------- Stab IV
1943 Dr. Sack, Albert; Sturmbannführer ------------------------------------------ Stab IV
1943 May, Werner; Sturmbannführer ----------------------------------------------- Stab IV
1944b Dr. Sack, Albert; Sturmbannführer ----------------------------------------- Stab IV
1944b May, Werner; Sturmbannführer --------------------------------------------- Stab IV


SS-Führer kommandiert
1936 Zopf, Rudolf; Untersturmführer ----------------------------------------- kdrt.Stab IV


Führer beim Stab (inaktiv - Funktionen außerhalb der SS)
DAL
1936 Diels, Rudolf; Standartenführer -------------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1936 Gnade Albert, Standartenführer -------------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1936 Willikens, Hans; Sturmbannführer ---------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1936 Schmidt, Willy; Sturmbannführer ----------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1936 Dr. Muß, Hermann; Hauptsturmführer ----------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1936 Behrens, Peter; Hauptsturmführer ---------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1936 Wurm, Franz; Obersturmführer -------------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1936 Boehme, Hans; Untersturmführer ----------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1936 Moser, Walter; Untersturmführer ------------------------------------------ b.Stab IV
1936 Dangers, Herbert; Untersturmführer -------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1937 Diels, Rudolf; Standartenführer --------------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1937 Gnade Albert, Standartenführer -------------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1937 Willikens, Hans; Sturmbannführer ---------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1937 Behrens, Peter; Hauptsturmführer ---------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1937 Lochmüller, Rolf; Hauptsturmführer --------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1937 Dangers, Herbert; Obersturmführer --------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1937 Boehme, Hans; Untersturmführer ----------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1937 Moser, Walter; Untersturmführer ------------------------------------------ b.Stab IV
1938 Diels, Rudolf; Standartenführer --------------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1938 Gnade Albert, Standartenführer -------------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1938 Willikens, Hans; Obersturmbannführer ---------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1938 Schmidt, Willy; Sturmbannführer ------------------------------------------ b.Stab IV
1938 Behrens, Peter; Hauptsturmführer ---------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1938 Lochmüller, Rolf; Hauptsturmführer --------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1938 Neumann, Max; Obersturmführer ------------------------------------------ b.Stab IV
1938 Dangers, Herbert; Obersturmführer --------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1938 Dr. Gregory Frhr. von, Karl; Obersturmführer -------------------------- b.Stab IV
1938 Moser, Walter; Untersturmführer ------------------------------------------ b.Stab IV
1942a Hecker, Ewald; Oberführer ------------------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1942a Gnade Albert, Standartenführer ------------------------------------------ b.Stab IV
1942b Willikens, Hans; Obersturmbannführer -------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1942b Dr. Tybusch, Kurt; Obersturmbannführer ----------------------------- b.Stab IV
1942b Schmidt, Willy; Obersturmbannführer --------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1942b Bühnemann, Karl; Sturmbannführer ------------------------------------ b.Stab IV
1943 Willikens, Hans; Obersturmbannführer ---------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1943 Bühnemann, Karl; Obersturmbannführer -------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1944a Hecker, Ewald; Brigadeführer ---------------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1944a Heske, Ferdinand; Oberführer --------------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1944a Gnade Albert, Standartenführer ------------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1944a Schmidt, Willy; Standartenführer ----------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1944a Dr. Tybusch, Kurt; Standartenführer ------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1944b Willikens, Hans; Obersturmbannführer --------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1944c Hecker, Ewald; Brigadeführer ---------------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1944c Heske, Ferdinand; Oberführer --------------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1944c Gnade Albert, Standartenführer ------------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1944c Schmidt, Willy; Standartenführer ----------------------------------------- b.Stab IV
1944c Dr. Tybusch, Kurt; Standartenführer ------------------------------------- b.Stab IV


Führer zur besonderen Verwendung
DAL
1934 Gattermann, Otto; Sturmbannführer ---------------------------------------- z.b.V. IV
1934 Spangenberg, Friedrich; Sturmführer --------------------------------------- z.b.V. IV
1934 Schimmelmann, Fritz Freiherr von; Sturmführer ------------------------ z.b.V. IV
1934 Törne, Hermann von; Sturmführer -------------------------------------------- z.b.V. IV
1934 Klagges, Gerhard; Sturmführer ----------------------------------------------- z.b.V. IV
1935 Gattermann, Otto; Sturmbannführer ---------------------------------------- z.b.V. IV
1935 Spangenberg, Friedrich; Untersturmführer -------------------------------- z.b.V. IV
1935 Schimmelmann, Fritz Freiherr von; Untersturmführer ----------------- z.b.V. IV
1935 Clages, Gerhard; Untersturmführer ------------------------------------------ z.b.V. IV


Führer zur Verfügung
DAL
1934 Gnade Alfred; Standartenführer ------------------------------------------------ z.V. IV
1935 Gnade Albert, Standartenführer ------------------------------------------------ z.V. IV
1935 Eickhoff, Heinrich; Obersturmführer ------------------------------------------ z.V. IV
1935 Kaiser, Hanns; Untersturmführer ---------------------------------------------- z.V. IV

(Quelle: SS-Dienstalterslisten)


d) Anschriften :

Datum:-------------------------Ort:
17.06.1932 ------------------- Braunschweig, Petritorwall 18a ---------------------- (Quelle: BArch NS19-1720)
04.11.1932 ------------------- Braunschweig, Petritorwallstr. 18a ------------------ (Quelle: DV-SSB01-32)
16.01.1933 ------------------- Braunschweig, Petritorwallstr. 18a ------------------ (Quelle: DU-SSAV33)
25.09.1936 ------------------- Braunschweig, Adolfstraße 52 ----------------------- (Quelle: DV-SSB09-36)
25.10.1936 ------------------- Hannover, Horst-Wessel-Platz 2 --------------------- (Quelle: DV-SSB10-36)
25.11.1936 ------------------- Hannover, Horst-Wessel-Platz 2 --------------------- (Quelle: DV-SSB11-36)
25.02.1937 ------------------- Hannover, Horst-Wessel-Platz 2 --------------------- (Quelle: DV-SSB02-37)
25.04.1937 ------------------- Hannover, Horst-Wessel-Platz 2 --------------------- (Quelle: DV-SSB04-37)
01.10.1937 ------------------- Hannover, Horst-Wessel-Platz 2 --------------------- (Quelle: DV-SSAV37)
25.03.1939 ------------------- Hannover, Horst-Wessel-Platz 2 --------------------- (Quelle: DV-SSB03-39)
25.05.1939 ------------------- Hannover, Horst-Wessel-Platz 2 --------------------- (Quelle: DV-SSB4/5-39)
01.02.1940-01.11.1944 -- Hannover, Horst-Wessel-Platz 2 --------------------- (Quelle: DV-SSAV40-41-43-44)


e) Weitere Quellenangaben :

(----- (1): BArch NS34-98)
(----- (2):Staatsarchiv Marburg Bestand 327-2a Nr. 185)
(----- (3): SSO-Akt Moder)
(----- (4): SSO-Akt Zenner)
(----- (5): SSO-Akt Gille)

Aktualisiert: 08.10.2016

Anhang:

Gebiet SS-Abschnitt IV (1941)
(Quelle: SS-Übersichtskarte Nr. 9, Stand 1.9.1941)
Übersichtskarte des Großdeutschen Reiches 1943 (Ausschnitt) und
Politische Übersicht 1943
Files

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Your man there is likely one of these persons above. On the other hand, God knows what changes were enacted in the Allgem. SS by 1943 as concerns insignia.
We follow those of the 1931-1937 epoch. Thanks for the picture. Your pictures are always picco bello.

[MM1985]

Thank you for the fast and detailed explanation. Sadly i do not have his tunic - only this Picture. There might stand a good Chance that he is one of the active Sturmbannführer in 1943 listed above.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Thank you for the fast and detailed explanation. Sadly i do not have his tunic - only this Picture. There might stand a good Chance that he is one of the active Sturmbannführer in 1943 listed above.

Thanks. I think he must be. Thanks for posting all the wonderful, never before seen items. We appreciate it very much.
Viel Sammlerglueck!

[Friedrich-Berthold]

It is also of note that he is wearing the sword in 1943, and I thought that was phased out for the pistol and such.

But I think he must have been full time if he had the grey uniform and so forth.

In any case, thanks.

If the RSHA people had a cuff title in 1943, I think it would be the blank one.

My betters can answer that. I think the Abschnitt Roman numeral on the collar was not always present from the uniforms I have seen, and they are few.

Thanks once more.

[HPL2008]

The blank right collar patch is of interest here.*

Normally, the Abschnitt number was worn both on the collar patch and the cuff title. (At least, that is the only practice that I am aware of from both the standard references and period photographs, which admittedly doesn't mean all that much.)

Of course, it could be that this redundant display of the wearer's assignment was discontinued at some point in favor of displaying the assignment on the cuff title only combined with a blank right collar patch (thus bringing the insignia for the Abschnitte in line with those of the Oberabschnitte and Hauptämter).

Maybe d'alquen has more data on this.


*) Edit: FB beat me to that observation.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Thank you, Andreas. I do not know, whereas Wim and Mr. d'Alquen would, but we have witnessed here the steady revision in detail of the Mollo and Angolia books
in arcane details. I would imagine the roman numerals were either phased out or ignored. In my Angolia (?!) translation of the 1938 price list, a thing
I have owned since the year 1 9 7 0, the only collar patches listed have arabic numbers. The 1934 list ( see picture here) has the roman numeral collar patches...

A new lost fact to be found in our club of arcane facts!

[Larry C]

Oddly on the sword the Runes on the grip are darkened. It would be to early during the period that the runes would tarnish ..unless this officer held some type of important capacity that did not reveal his officer status. Yet his Collar insignia shows brightly his rank.

Regards Larry