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schwarzer Dienstrock plus Muetze, Motorstandarte 2, Fulda Werra

Article about: This Montur came from a world renowned collector and friend. It has many noteworthy aspects to it, not the least that it is an Allgemeine SS Kraftfahr or Motor tunic of early make and high q

  1. #51

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    Quote by BOB COLEMAN View Post
    This tunic was a part of the Ed Stadnicki collection. Ed was an old time collector who never sold anything and aquired items either first hand from a vet or from a picker who vet bought it. The driver's badge is a true oddity on this tunic. There will likely never be a clear answer for it's placement on this early tunic. At the time Ed was collecting, dealers were stripping tunics, not adding insignia. A curious feature to this early tunic which will likely never have an answer..
    Thanks for the valuable insights. I appreciate your great knowledge and experience upon which this site has been built.
    damit, basta.

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  3. #52

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    Quote by Wilhelm Saris View Post
    As usual FB, great items you're showing.
    d'Alquen thanks for the order about the NSKK diamond.

    Ed was a nice guy too me. We had contact for a quite while and we had just agreed
    he would assist me where possible for my planned books. He was doing research
    for me and would make photos from rare headgear from his collection when the
    "disaster" happened. With him the collector's world lost a true man of spirit!
    Thank you. Your professional familiarity with the original collector and your use of his collection for your fine publications suggest the quality of the items he collected, if I may so infer.
    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 01-11-2015 at 03:11 AM.
    damit, basta.

  4. #53

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    Quote by d'alquen View Post
    With regard to the cufftitle on this tunic it should be noted that the Motor units of the SS were the very earliest to lose the coloured borders on their cuff bands. When they were re-organized in 1936 the units were aligned at the Oberabschnitte level which meant the old coloured borders were redundant. In April 1936 the coloured border was replaced by an aluminium one and the numbers were embroidered in grey for men and aluminium for leaders. This order from May amends that regulation by clarifying that the members of staff would wear a plain cuff title.
    Thank you, as ever, for your wonderful research. The uniform in this thread obviously was left by whomever in an earlier posture (i.e. prior to the 1936 order to reform the Motor insignia), as are several I own which were not updated after 1937/8 or only partially so. Why these uniforms remained in an earlier posture is unknown to me, other than the phenomena decried in many RZM and SS orders to the effect that persons did not heed orders. This 1936 Heissmeyer document is also not reflected in the secondary works, as near as I can tell, is it?
    thanks so much.
    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 01-11-2015 at 05:18 AM.
    damit, basta.

  5. #54
    ?

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    I thought this group looked familiar. Here are two images of it in a previous collection. I know not where I acquired the photos. Thanks to Wim Saris and d'alquen for their usual compelling observations.
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  6. #55

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    Thanks, colleague jHAM, for your fine picture research. You do as I do and save all the pictures. I have been doing so since the turn of the millenium.

    When it comes to authentic black SS uniforms, there is hardly a very bountiful supply and the wise person keeps an eye on the to and fro in the firmament.
    damit, basta.

  7. #56

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    Quote by d'alquen View Post
    I also checked the complete list of items issued by the SS-Bekleidungswerk in 1942 which is quite exhaustive and there too it lists the SA diamond but does not include the NSKK diamond. Perhaps the order was rescinded, I shall have to check.
    Am I right in assuming that the ex-NSKK members' sleeve diamond was simply the NSKK's Kraftfahrraute as worn on the left sleeve of NSKK unifoms by qualified motor vehicle drivers?

    If so, couldn't its omission from SS listings simply be due to the fact that the badge was procured via NSKK channels or already in the possession of those entitled to wear it?

    (Whereas the ex-SA members' sleeve diamond was a special badge specifically created for the SS.)

  8. #57

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    Quote by HPL2008 View Post
    Am I right in assuming that the ex-NSKK members' sleeve diamond was simply the NSKK's Kraftfahrraute as worn on the left sleeve of NSKK unifoms by qualified motor vehicle drivers? If so, couldn't its omission from SS listings simply be due to the fact that the badge was procured via NSKK channels or already in the possession of those entitled to wear it?
    (Whereas the ex-SA members' sleeve diamond was a special badge specifically created for the SS.)
    This is also what I think. A black diamond already existed and was not a new item. I checked RZM price-lists for the NSKK from early 19490 through late 1942 and there was not mentioned a special diamond for those transferred to the SS-TV. It took until January 24, 1942 (nr.2, page 10 from the Mitteilungsblatt) where a new diamond was announced, the NSKK Ärmelraute, which was known as the Ehrenraute with a colored backing (auf farbigem Tuch, aluminium gestickt). There do exist two colors (as far as I know) the black one and crimson/red version. The symbol was the same as shown with the M2-tunic.

    For those interested I checked also the Mitteilungsblatt des NSKK and two notes are related to the NSKK volunteers for the SS-TV. First is the note where it is said it was allowed to apply (Eintritt), the other note is about the diamond to be worn (Kennzeichnnung).

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    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  9. #58

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    Thanks, Wim, for the additional material of great merit. This thread is a fine example of the subtleties of items which somehow diverge from collector group think.

    Your aid to the collector community with your fine research is a source of great joy.

    I would also note that the Allgemeine SS was also used to reinforce the SSTV with mobilization, a well known fact, examined today in far greater depth in all the

    excellent new research on both the Allgemeine SS and the SSTV/Waffen SS.
    damit, basta.

  10. #59

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    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	788353at the risk of being didactic, according to this document, this badge is worn on the right lower sleeve, which is, in fact, the case with my uniform....thanks, again, to all of you who have given of their time and knowledge.
    damit, basta.

  11. #60

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    I do not know if this is pertinent or not..but the photo below supported by Andreas post..also points to a steering wheel device on the lower cuff of the 2 SS men in post #22 of the link above the photo

    Early wedding photo

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    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

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