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schwarzer Dienstrock plus Muetze, Motorstandarte 2, Fulda Werra

Article about: This Montur came from a world renowned collector and friend. It has many noteworthy aspects to it, not the least that it is an Allgemeine SS Kraftfahr or Motor tunic of early make and high q

  1. #61

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    Quote by Larry C View Post
    I do not know if this is pertinent or not..but the photo below supported by Andreas post..also points to a steering wheel device on the lower cuff of the 2 SS men in post #22 of the link above the photo.
    These are early cuff titles worn by the A-SS' motor units (around the same time Pionier units wore a "P" on their cuff titles).

    I know d'Alquen has more data on the special formations' early insignia, as he had once provided me with information on those in a PM- or e-mail exchange, which for the life of me I can't find anymore.

    They are, in any case, unconnected to the sleeve diamond in question.

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  3. #62

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    For the benefit of the non-German speakers, here are translations of the relevant documents concerning the SA- and NSKK sleeve diamonds:

    RFSS order of 27 Nov. 1939:

    "All SA men who, by the Führer's authorization of 16 Nov. 39, had come forward as volunteers for the SS-Totenkopfstandarten*) and who will be employed there, wear on their service dress the SA insigne on a diamond that is to be applied on the right lower sleeve."

    (Annotation: "This order was issued on the basis of a letter from the RFSS to Stabschef Lutze**) in order to make the SA men identifiable as SA volunteers")

    *) SS Death's Head Regiments.
    *) SA Chief-of-Staff Viktor Lutze.


    RFSS order of 15 Dec. 1939:


    "Expanding upon the SS-order no. 35/245/39 of 27 Nov. 39 it is ordered that all NSKK men who had come forward as volunteers for the SS-Totenkopfstandarten and who will be employed there are also to wear on their service dress the NSKK insigne on a diamond that is to be applied on the right lower sleeve."


    NSKK-Befehlsblatt:

    "Subject: Distinctive marks for the NSKK men serving as volunteers in the SS.

    Per his decree 35/245/39 of 13 Dec. 1939, the
    Reichsführer SS has ordered all NSKK men who had come forward as volunteers for the SS-Totenkopfstandarten and who will be employed there to wear on their service dress the "NSKK-Kraftfahrraute"*, which is to be applied to the right lower sleeve."

    *) Roughly translated "NSKK-motoring diamond"


    It is worth noting that the secondary literature usually identifies these badges as being for SA-/NSKK members who had volunteered for the Death's Head units in general. These documents make it clear that they were only to be worn by those who had signed up for the reinforced Totenkopf-Standarten, i.e. the wartime security- / occupation units rather than the camp guards of the Totenkopf-Wachsturmbanne.

  4. #63

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    Andreas, do have a look at this recent work, which also is more than germane to the issue at hand.

    I got this book on my recent forage in central Europe.

    http://www.schoeningh.de/uploads/tx_...6776547_iv.pdf pp.125 ff. goes into the early war development of not only the SSTV but the fate of the Allgem. SS in this pivotal period.
    Such new, highly interesting research can well be read along with these documents. This knowledge is NOT in the commonly used English language regalia books, though a hint of same is in Mollo, vol. IV.

    Also, if someone will cross link this thread with the older thread on Motorstuerme, Motorstandarten, that would help.

    The major points in this connection are the origins of these units in the SA/SS ca. 1931/2 and their decline ca. 1935/6 with the rise of the NSKK and the armed formations of the SSVT and SSTV.
    damit, basta.

  5. #64

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    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	788405Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	788406Colleague Derek has elsewhere included these two items, six years apart, which speak to my points: the 1931 directive on such auto units from Roehm, and the statistics from the SS high command on the reduction in force of these units in the midst of the build up of the SSVT and SSTV in the year 1 9 3 7.

    The lesson in this issue, if there is one, is how crucial the brief, chaotic development of the SS is to an understanding of its regalia.

    In re-reading d'Alquen's own little history of the SS, he originally makes this point seized upon by Mollo and Wegner, each in their own way.

    Look here: https://archive.org/stream/Dalquen-G...ge/n9/mode/2up


    The collector who ignores all of this complex knowledge is a person headed for real disappointment.
    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 01-11-2015 at 11:04 PM.
    damit, basta.

  6. #65

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    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	788415Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	788414Maybe my person here got RIF'd in 1937, and his uniform was unused til the war started, or who knows?
    damit, basta.

  7. #66

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    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	788417Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	788419Another subtle point about this Montur is this: the embroidery on the collar and the collar patch itself is of an early date. That is, the embroidery is white silk or cotton versus the later silver grey silk which came about or not in late 1934 or 1935.

    However, the piping of the collar patch was updated on this uniform .....with the alu and black. Insignia courtesy Delich.
    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 01-12-2015 at 04:39 AM.
    damit, basta.

  8. #67

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    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	788421Name:  Sta 12 patch.jpg
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Size:  24.6 KBHere is the later grey silk embroidery from the Hritz treasures.
    damit, basta.

  9. #68

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    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	788423Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	788424Or a contrast of left (white) to right(silver grey).....these are both mine. The Schwerin uniform is more or less from the year 1935 or 1936.

    The Sta. 22 Schweriner Montur does not have the honor regiment name later given to this Standarte.
    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 01-12-2015 at 03:56 PM.
    damit, basta.

  10. #69

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    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	788428I think the collar patch originally was with the white piping.
    damit, basta.

  11. #70

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    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	788444Here is another older uniform, with the white and black collar piping, but with updated, post 1937 and or alu wire collar patches. This is not mine. It was offered to me, but I did not buy it.
    damit, basta.

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