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SS-Führerschule Tölz Armband

Article about: Hello gentlemen, Could you please verify an authenticity of the cuff title. The band is related to all-original German SS Officer School at Bad Tölz. It measures 46 cm long and 3 cm wide. Th

  1. #11

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    Just a note to clarify HPL's third point about the date of the use of runes on the cuff band.
    I think the 1939 date is probably from one of those orders retrospectively clarifying regulations, (although I can't say that I know the order offhand).
    A letter from the Head of the Verwaltungsamt-SS in August 1938 asks for clarification as to whether the cufftitles for the Allgemeine-SS should use the runic 'SS' that the SS-VT was using. A reply in September from the Fuehrungsamt says that Himmler determined the runics were indeed to be used on Allgemeine-SS bands.
    As the schools were part of the SS-VT these documents would indicate that the titles with runic 'SS" were manufactured prior to August 1938.

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  3. #12

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    Thanks so much for your careful study of the files and their many, many treasures.
    The successful collector needs to arm himself or herself with years of study with this complex material.
    damit, basta.

  4. #13

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    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	778722Apropos the omnibus image above with the many cuff titles, David Delich writes us all as follows.


    ".....I have issues with several of the badges in the latest
    thread re: the "SS-Schule Tolz" cuff title. First of all,
    the most glaring repro in the batch is the BFC title
    shown in the first attachment.
    In Vol. 2 of Bender's Foreign Legions of the Third
    Reich, are a few pages that discuss the British Free
    Corps. Shown on one page is a hand drawing of a
    facsimile of a British Free Corps cuff title (1st attachment)
    with several reproduction BFC badges, eg., Union Jack
    sleeve shield, a three lion collar patch, and a cuff title.
    When Roger was writing this section of his 4th volume,
    I offered to provide an artistic concept of what a BFC
    cuff title might look like. Most letters look as most do
    on any cuff titles with Gothic style lettering except for the
    "B" and the "F", which were creations of my own. In
    short, this title is only a representation, as a genuine BFC
    cuff title design is yet unknown. These badges shown were
    created for Adrian Weale's film documentary on the BFC,
    and were of a design not exactly as the originals.
    I agree with HPL2008' s comment in that there was no
    such title ever created as "SS Fuhrerschule Tolz" -- a comment
    I would have included in my first response to this thread,
    but felt a curt "it's bad" would have sufficed.
    Also, in the array of cuff titles shown, there are many
    incorrectly-shaped letters in the "SS-Schule Braunschweig"
    "Danmark", "Charlemagne", "SS-Hauptamt", and
    "SS-Schule Tolz"..."


    No more authoritative voice can be found on these matters.
    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 12-17-2014 at 11:35 PM.
    damit, basta.

  5. #14
    Asp
    Asp is offline
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    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    Apropos the omnibus image above with the many cuff titles, David Delich writes us all as follows...
    Friedrich, many thanks for professional consultation on the theme with David Delich. Now no more quations.

    I would recommend Kurylev to burn down the book in order to avoid discredit. Definitely the book is not intended for professional collectors.

    Thank all participants!

  6. #15

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    Quote by Asp View Post
    Friedrich, many thanks for professional consultation on the theme with David Delich. Now no more quations.

    I would recommend Kurylev to burn down the book in order to avoid discredit. Definitely the book is not intended for professional collectors.

    Thank all participants!
    Thanks to you, in turn, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year with your collecting and the struggle to know the truth about these complicated things.

    Our site is, indeed, the place to search for these truths.
    damit, basta.

  7. #16

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    Quote by HPL2008 View Post
    Unless I am very much mistaken (and I will gladly stand corrected), no version with the text "SS-Führerschule Tölz" ever existed. I am aware of the following succession of patterns for this school's cuff titles:

    • 1.) "SS Schule Tölz" in Sütterlin script, introduced in 1934.
    • 2.) "SS-Schule Tölz" in Gothic letters, introduced in 1936 (when it was decided that Sütterlin script on SS cuff titles was to be exclusive to the LSSAH). Period photographs show that this pattern was worn well into the war years despite being replaced by:
    • 3.) "SS-Schule Tölz" in Gothic letters with runic "SS", introduced in Sept. 1939 (when a regulation change ordered the "SS" to be written in runic form only).

    Williamson & McGuirl speculate that a fourth pattern my have been introduced in Dec. 1939 when the use of Latin script was ordered for SS cuff titles instead of Gothic letters but remark that this has not yet been confirmed by photographic evidence.

    In any case, the former SS-Führerschulen at Bad Tölz and Braunschweig were re-designated as SS-Junkerschulen in 1937, which also contradicts the existence of a cuff title with the text "SS-Führerschule Tölz" in the "final" style with runic "SS" and Latin script.


    Attachment 778261
    (The school's cuff title listed in a 1936 price list)
    Hoping you can help authenticate some ID cuffs I purchased last weekend - These cuffs came for the estate of a US WW2 Veteran who passed away in 1993. These were among all his military belongings buried in a closet at his house.

    After looking over this thread -
    "BeVo" SS cuff titles: how to spot original from fake

    I did the tests to check for originality. They didn't "glow" under a Black light. I also cut off a piece of stray thread from the back and it burned up, didn't ball up as described with polyester threads. The thread just burned away to nothing.

    Below are photos of the cuffs. Please let me know what you guys think. Really want to find out what I am dealing with and if these are indeed originals. It seems very hard to tell. Thank you!

    Here is how I acquired them, with the medal.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Unwrapped and laid out

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    Backside(s)

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    Ends

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  8. #17

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    Hate to bring bad news , but I think they are all wrong , and that medal will turn out to be the most valuable in the lot .

    The band weave is quite off , as is the embroidery , and the glittering tinsel material used for the 6-strand borders .

    The tearable paperlike / polyester cloth that was used as reinforcement on the reverse between the letters , that - is the final kiss of death .

    PS : hope you didn't pay too much , and remember that sometimes WW2 veterans bought souvenirs at gunshows as well ..

  9. #18

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    An original to compare band weave , and letters ;
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  10. #19

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    And there is also that common crucial mistake in the " F " of the fake , do compare the crossbar .. !
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  11. #20

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    Bravo, Winkelmann, another fine intervention!
    damit, basta.

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