SS Greatcoat or Boderless Armband

[Raymond270]

I have been meaning to ask this question for awhile. What are your opinions or knowledge on the
borderless SS Armband. I think I have seen some period photos of the early LSAH wearing them.

Any help or info is greatly appreciated.
Thank you Raymond.

[Duff]

Its of great debate... Has been for a while... Post these pictures..... Please...

[DrCMH]

There are a few threads here regarding this topic. A few have postulated as to the nature of these armbands devoid of borders with an SS RZM label but there has been little to no photographic evidence of their use, especially on the greatcoat. In fact, photographic evidence suggests that the armbands on greatcoats were bordered just like the armbands found on the black service tunic. I believe that there was a purpose for said armband, however, it has likely been lost in time. I can confidently state that the unbordered armband was not for use on the schwarz Mantel and that, as FB would likely put it - and far more eloquently than I could ever dream of- this is a gun show myth.


Bundesarchiv



Acknowledgements given where known

[DrCMH]

The greatcoat was "advertised" as such...


CMH

The above would be found in a tailors shop as noted by this communication within the 15.12.34 Mitteilungsblatt der RZM.

Credit: Wim Saris

[DrCMH]

Additionally,

I have yet to witness an example of these borderless armbands affixed to a genuine Mantel of the period that survive in any collection to date:


CMH


FB collection

[DrCMH]

There aren't any specifics found within the booklet on how to construct these garments regarding armbands without borders...


CMH




And that's all I have to say about that...

[Friedrich-Berthold]

I own five SS overcoats, and all of them have standard SS arm bands.

This issue is an urban legend derived from a very old picture book.

The distinction in the SS price list is of an arm band of circumference for the tunic, and, as logic and practicality would dictate, a longer one for the overcoat, 50 and 55 cms.

Most people in the wider world have never really seen a black SS uniform, let alone own one, nor an overcoat, ergo...

Mr. Pascal has sold this one here just now, and look and see what you find....

It is not mine, but I own ones like this.

[BOB COLEMAN]

These borderless kampfbinde can be found with both the cloth and later D code SS RZM tag. I concur that the idea that this is a fantasy theory of being worn on a mantel. My supposition has always been that these were issued and worn by SS auxiliaries and SS functions. Everyone I have come across(quite a few)are in unissued condition. If these were in widespread use, I would certainly believe worn examples would be plentiful.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

The issue arose with this book of the early 1970s, which contains images of the item and the assertion that it was intended for the overcoat.

It is a classic example of an error living on despite massive evidence that the "theory" is totally in error.

Those who are put out by the use of professional, scholarly methods here can reflect for awhile about this question, as well.

This was a wonderful book, really, in other ways, and I wonder what happened to the things in it?

I was getting into my stride with this stuff when the book appeared.

[BOB COLEMAN]

This is a classic example of identification of an item without any documentation to back it up. A similar case is the SA Wehrmannschaft armband identified for nearly 70 years as the SA sports armband until properly shown through period pictures in a period German periodical.