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SS Grouping from recent auction

Article about: I'm really shocked this grouping hasn't been discussed here. I personally like all the items and believe they're all original and SS. That said, I do have some concerns, such as did this gro

  1. #31

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ID:	674318and as a Standartenoberjunker, he was entitled to wear this cap which he would have also worn as an Untersturmfuehrer.
    When I lived in West Germany in the 1970s and in the 1980s, I saw this kind of denazified ensemlbe of uniforms often, but more for army and air force.
    I have no idea as to its provenance, or, if it truly was the property of this Gerke, but it well might be.
    I did not buy it; I do not profit from its sale; I do not know Buschek; I asked if the caps were the same size, and was able to answer my own question;
    I also generalize about officer candidates and promotion, something I know very well from decades of direct experience.
    The take away from my experience is this: much of military personnel is confusing, it is not all that linear, and odd things happen.
    These things are more so in the year 1944 in Germany, when the country is losing a war and being destroyed.
    However, such an insight might also be immaterial in the coup counting, hissy fits, bitch slapping and skull smashing that are the norm of collecting SS regalia on line.

    And, may I also say that the posts of certain others on this site and on certain other sites hardly brim with knowledge and research of a kind that convinces me of much of anything.
    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 04-12-2014 at 05:14 AM.
    damit, basta.

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  3. #32

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    Rather than an inquiry into this pile of old clothes, why does not one of you do a book report for us on this new and exciting book?
    damit, basta.

  4. #33

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    Thank you Mr. Butschek for taking the time to share with us this information. The matching size of the tunics and visors is surely interesting. That said, I am still a bit confused why he would pre-order a tunic with Untersturmfuhrer shoulder-boards prior to his promotion, especially considering he didn't reach this rank until after his passing, least that's what it appears is likely from the documents. I completely understand he could've worn this tunic with his NCO insignia, but such is obviously not the case considering the shoulder-boards....unless I'm missing something which is quite possible. I am a novice in many regards.
    I'm also one you can count amongst the English speaking members, though not from lack of trying to learn German, and though I understand the American Military system to a certain degree, I seem to be at a loss with the Thrid Reich's(this situ. is a great example of that). The boards along with the tunics "forestry green" collar tabs, as well others aspects, is the cause for my concerns and reasoning for creating this thread. I think Mr. Coleman has said it best. Again, thank you for taking time out of what I'm sure is a busy month to oblige our request.

  5. #34

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    Quote by youthcollector1 View Post
    That said, I am still a bit confused why he would pre-order a tunic with Untersturmfuhrer shoulder-boards prior to his promotion, especially considering he didn't reach this rank until after his passing, least that's what it appears is likely from the documents.
    Personally, I don't have a huge problem with that particular fact.

    Standartenoberjunker was the most senior and final officer candidate rank prior to commissioning as an officer. Promotion to this rank took only place after the officer candidate had fully completed his required training, succesfully passed the final examinations and graduated from officer school. He would then return to his unit, and, after a satisfactory probation period of a minimum of two months was finally promoted to Untersturmführer.

    A competent candidate could expect the probationary period to extend not much beyond the required minimum, especially if we consider the chronic shortage of qualified leadership personnel at this late stage of the war combined with the rate of losses at the company-grade officer level. So, pre-ordering a tunic with Ustuf insignia after reaching Standartenoberjunker rank was really not a particularly bold or premature move, although in this case, it did turn out to be overly optimistic.

    (I cannot offer a truly qualified evaluation of the items as such or on their provenance; I am solely commenting on the rank/insignia issue here.)

  6. #35

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    Thank you HPL, you raise a valid point.

  7. #36

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    Quote by HPL2008 View Post
    Personally, I don't have a huge problem with that particular fact.

    Standartenoberjunker was the most senior and final officer candidate rank prior to commissioning as an officer. Promotion to this rank took only place after the officer candidate had fully completed his required training, succesfully passed the final examinations and graduated from officer school. He would then return to his unit, and, after a satisfactory probation period of a minimum of two months was finally promoted to Untersturmführer.

    A competent candidate could expect the probationary period to extend not much beyond the required minimum, especially if we consider the chronic shortage of qualified leadership personnel at this late stage of the war combined with the rate of losses at the company-grade officer level. So, pre-ordering a tunic with Ustuf insignia after reaching Standartenoberjunker rank was really not a particularly bold or premature move, although in this case, it did turn out to be overly optimistic.

    (I cannot offer a truly qualified evaluation of the items as such or on their provenance; I am solely commenting on the rank/insignia issue here.)
    Thank you, Andreas, for your skill and patience in this little essay. You make my point far better than I am able.
    Schoene Gruesse nach Bayern.
    damit, basta.

  8. #37

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    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    Schoene Gruesse nach Bayern.
    Fondest greetings to here and there, as well!

  9. #38

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    Quote by HPL2008 View Post
    Fondest greetings to here and there, as well!
    Thank you, dear colleague, and all the best.
    damit, basta.

  10. #39

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    I still have not found one arguement to justify this style and color of tunic as SS. As it was evidently made during the war, I know of no such alternate style to an open collar garment such as this one. As to the caps, I can find nothing wrong with them. They are very nice period caps.
    BOB

    LIFE'S LOSERS NEVER LEARN FROM THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS.

  11. #40

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ID:	674797Apropos of nothing, here is Wim Saris' extract of the well known Waffen SS uniform chart and or images from the Kleiderkasse SS catalog.
    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 04-12-2014 at 10:53 PM.
    damit, basta.

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