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SS-Gruppenführer Karl Hermann Frank Cuff title ID?

Article about: by Friedrich-Berthold He apparently crimped his prongs. He was probably copying the Big Kahuna himself , as you posted here last year and worthy of another airing..... http://www.warrelics.e

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    Default SS-Gruppenführer Karl Hermann Frank Cuff title ID?

    I am working on a project that shows some of the similarities between National Socialist Germany's take over of Czechoslovakia and today's Russian actives in Ukraine. We should learn from the past!

    Would Höhere SS- und Polizeiführer SS-Gruppenführer Karl Hermann Frank have worn a black uniform in 1939? I have found no photos yet of him in a black SS uniform. Should I stop looking?

    I have tried to ID the cuff title in what I think is an early photo of him in SS uniform (1940-41). I am looking for a early nice photo of him in SS uniform. It looks close to the RF-SS cuff title, but not right (what would be the F seems to be more on an angle than it should be). I just maybe miss seeing things. I have found photos of him later wearing a Reichsführung-SS cuff title when he was a SS-Obergruppenführer. Can someone here identify the cuff title and post a nice clear photo of the cuff title if something other than RF-SS?


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    Last edited by CARL; 06-30-2014 at 11:26 AM.

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    Hi Ganer..just a heads up stay focused on the uniform..or uniforms..if there are to be any comparison....between the 2 countries..I do urge "not" to lean into a political arena comparing the 2 nations in the present circumstances of the Ukraine itself. The thread will be deleted if done so.

    The photo above IMO is a rare one which I have never see before up close of that Monster Frank. Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

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    Yes, the topic is uniforms and insignia. I don't collect WWII uniforms anymore (I still have what I collected) and moved on to WWII firearms and I just wanted to explained why i wanted the info. I just hate when I watch a documentary on WWII and they are talking about the German invasion of France 1940 and a Panther comes on screen. I want the images I use to fit what the topic is. Correct visual images are as important as text to me.


    I think the pin Frank is wearing is the same as the one added (or very similar)
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    I found very little on SdP party uniforms and here he is in a SdP uniform.
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    Later he is mostly photographed in SS uniform, even in his role as 'Secretary of State of the Reich Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia'. I have found very good info on SS uniforms and Organization here!

    Yes, I have the same opinion of him.

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    You may find this thread useful:

    Karl Hermann Frank
    Experienced guide and published author leading detailed study trips to the former KZ sites of Nazi Germany. Contact for further details.

    www.concentrationcamptours.com

    www.concentrationcampmoney.com


    "maka akaŋl oyate maŋi pi ki le, tuweŋi wíyópeya oki hi sni"

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    Side by side. Is it RF-SS? I have seen him wearing this cuff title in other photos, but this is the clearest image I have found.

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    Thanks, CARL88!

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    Quote by Ganer View Post
    Would Höhere SS- und Polizeiführer SS-Gruppenführer Karl Hermann Frank have worn a black uniform in 1939? I have found no photos yet of him in a black SS uniform. Should I stop looking?
    "Professional" SS personnel were uniformed for everyday duty in grey even before the outbreak of war, but also wore the black service uniform as a dress-/parade-/walking out uniform.

    They stopped wearing the black service uniform altogether at or very shortly after the outbreak of war. Only part-time Allgemeine SS personnel and purely honorary SS officers continued to wear black up until the end of the war. (We have a thread on the subject of late-war wear of the black uniform.)

    Frank joined the SS in November 1938; it is pretty safe to say that he would have worn a black dress uniform in the rather short, remaining pre-war period, but not after the outbreak of war.


    Quote by Ganer View Post
    I have tried to ID the cuff title in what I think is an early photo of him in SS uniform (1940-41). I am looking for a early nice photo of him in SS uniform. It looks close to the RF-SS cuff title, but not right (what would be the F seems to be more on an angle than it should be). I just maybe miss seeing things. I have found photos of him later wearing a Reichsführung-SS cuff title when he was a SS-Obergruppenführer. Can someone here identify the cuff title and post a nice clear photo of the cuff title if something other than RF-SS?
    The cuff title is the "RFSS" cuff title worn by members of Himmler's personal staff, seen here in the variant with Gothic "RF" and Runic "SS". Its immediately preceding model had the full "RFSS" abbreviation in Gothic script. There was also an earlier version with the "RFSS" in full block letters. After September 1939, the "SS" was to appear only in Runic form on all cuff titles.

    The "Reichsführung-SS" cuff title was introduced in 1939 and worn by all personnel attached to any of the Main or subsidiary offices which made up the enlarged RFSS.

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    Thanks HPL2008!

    That clears up my questions! I use this information to date photos. When he has the rank of SS-Obergruppenführer all of the cuff titles are the Reichsführung-SS. Is that a demotion off Himmler's staff? With someone like Frank (he was Reich Minister for Bohemia and Moravia by then) are the uniform details more style or job? Reichskommissar for Norway Josef Terboven just made up his own personal uniform.

    I will look for a photos of him in black. The image goes with his appointment as Höhere SS- und Polizeiführer for Böhmen und Mähren before the start of the war. I did read the great series of posts on war time wearing of Black uniforms. Most of the photos I have found of him in SS uniform he is with Reinhard Heydrich which is in 1941.

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ID:	708370Voila. Never say never....
    damit, basta.

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    He apparently crimped his prongs.

    The best source for this personage is the Czech News archive, whence I found these images.
    damit, basta.

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    Thanks Friedrich-Berthold!

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