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SS Hats - A study of period photos

Article about: by talltom bottom picture on no.4 anyone noticed the shirt he is wearing isn't a plain one (odd) any extra info tom Simply wartime shortages. Plus some guys will always try and be different.

  1. #51
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    Default Re: SS Hats - A study of period photos

    What formation does the collar tab with the Gothic "K" belong to?

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  3. #52
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    Default Re: SS Hats - A study of period photos

    Here's a couple from Kai Winkler's latest update......
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #53

    Default Re: SS Hats - A study of period photos

    Thanks Adrian. Another two non regulation soldiers. One wears a Heer Panzer collar tab skull while the other has a sleeve eagle on his cap. The charge sheet gets bigger!

    Cheers, Ade.
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  5. #54

    Default Re: SS Hats - A study of period photos

    Quote by Walter View Post
    What formation does the collar tab with the Gothic "K" belong to?
    The Gothic "K" [for "Kommandantur"] was the first pattern collar patch for personnel on the staff of a concentration camp commandant (and certain other personnel).

    It was replaced by a second pattern which had a vertical "Death's Head" and below that a much smaller Gothic "K". (see here for examples: Info needed : SS concentration camp skull K collar tabs totenkop )
    Last edited by HPL2008; 10-23-2011 at 02:45 PM.

  6. #55

    Default Re: SS Hats - A study of period photos

    Quote by HPL2008 View Post
    That's the cap of the Flemish Germanic SS. (Allgemeene SS Vlaanderen / Germaansche SS in Vlaanderen)

    Instead of the national eagle, the Germanic SS formations in Flanders had this elongated Swastika, those in the Netherlands had a "Wolf's Hook" and the Danish Schalburg-Korps a winged "mobile" Swastika, while the Death's Head was common to all of them.

    (The man in the photograph SS-Onderstormleider August Schollen, murdered on 4 December 1942 in Brussels.)

    For some more photos and period items related to the Flemish SS, please see:

    The Flemish Legion - Langemarck Flemish general SS
    Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums - View Single Post - Vlaanderen...land of beauty
    Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums - View Single Post - Flemish volunteer - Das Reich - Deutschland
    Thanks for that info, I was going to ask the same question- I've never seen that kind of cap before now, very interesting!

    Mat

  7. #56

    Default Re: SS Hats - A study of period photos

    HPL2008,
    It's not a first pattern badge.
    The gothic "k" collar patch was introduced in 1935 for men and nco's on the staff of concentration camps and the staff of the Dachau Uebungslager. The skull with the smaller k underneath was introduced at the same time for officers on the staff of a camp.
    The only amendment that I'm aware of to this arrangement was late in 1938 when Eicke requested that the "k" was not to be worn by members of the Uebungslager and so in 1939 they were issued the new "U" with an unmlaut and the "k" was reserved exclusively for camp staff.
    d'alquen

  8. #57

    Default Re: SS Hats - A study of period photos

    Quote by d'alquen View Post
    It's not a first pattern badge.
    The gothic "k" collar patch was introduced in 1935 for men and nco's on the staff of concentration camps and the staff of the Dachau Uebungslager. The skull with the smaller k underneath was introduced at the same time for officers on the staff of a camp.
    The only amendment that I'm aware of to this arrangement was late in 1938 when Eicke requested that the "k" was not to be worn by members of the Uebungslager and so in 1939 they were issued the new "U" with an unmlaut and the "k" was reserved exclusively for camp staff.
    Many thanks for the above information; this is all knew to me!

    All the standard references (Mollo, Angolia, Lumsden etc.) describe the "K" collar patch as being a first pattern used from 1934 to 1937 with the "Death's Head + K" collar patch being the second pattern replacing it in 1937.

    This had always seemed plausible to me and I had never doubted it, but, needless to say, standard references can be wrong, too, and I am fully aware of your intimate knowledge of period regulations and orders.

    Sure enough, going through photographs of SS camp personnel (web-finds saved for personal reference and illustrations in assorted books), I found a substantial number of NCOs/ORs wearing the "K" collar patch, but not a single officer.

    At the same time, the vast majority of those wearing the "Death's Head+K" collar patch were officers. Still, there were two NCOs as well:

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    There are also surviving examples with black/silver [i.e. enlisted ranks'] piping. [examples: SS TK mid war collartabs ]

    So, was this an unoffical practice or is it possible that the "K" was at some point discontinued with authorization for wearing the "Death's Head + K" extended to all ranks?

    Would it be possible for you to post scans of the above regulations? I find this all very interesting.
    Last edited by HPL2008; 10-23-2011 at 05:33 PM.

  9. #58

    Default Re: SS Hats - A study of period photos

    HPL2008,
    Here as you request is a section from Himmler's 1937 clarification of insignia for the Allgemeine-SS that shows this insignia.
    I don't know of any later change to this order.
    I know the two photos you have shown and it is worth noting that in both examples the men wear the "L" cypher for training. I have always presumed that they were allowed to wear the officers' patches because of this role.
    d'alquen
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  10. #59

    Default Re: SS Hats - A study of period photos

    Brilliant, many thanks indeed!

  11. #60

    Default Re: SS Hats - A study of period photos

    A big thank you from me too.

    Cheers, Ade.
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