03-09-2015 10:59 AM
I sent your material to Dave Delich to ask him to comment.
As you know, the standardization of these items unfolded in the course of 1934, as this insignia was phased out.
Hence, variations are normal and can be expected.
The leatherette strap on the strap, however, does not look good to me.
Noticeable is that all known collar tabs have the same white piping from the thick thread. My one are with a thinner and finer piping from other material.
By the way: Its UV negative. The leatherette strap is attached later in my eyes, but I cant say when.
Thank you for help me. I look forward to the statement of Dave Delich..
Thanks. The image of the several patches with the white Paspel is from Delich's collection.
He will answer at some point, and I will forward to you what he says.
Hi Andi, Black light testing is meaningless. PM me your e-mail and I can send you a PDF of a scientific article that outlines the situation.
Here are Mr. Delich's comments:
".....It's difficult to ascertain with much certainty as to whether
this piece is genuine or not. Recalling my own examples
of early, white-piped tabs, many variants existed in the
pre-organizational daysl Note the above pic of Hans
Baranowski with his lame-looking piping that is pictured
as thick as a hangman's rope. In my eye, very unsightly,
but obviously genuine and probably something Hans
Also note the less than "standard" numerals, especially
the "2". Also the tabs bear non-issue piping which was
made from a length of white "Russia Braid" -- material
more commonly used to place on o'seas caps in the shape
of an inverted "V" to denote the arm -- white for Infantry,
Red for Flak, blue for medical, etc. In the case of the "6"
tab, it was probably the only thing then available to
complete the tab. That was really "reaching".
Lastly is the All-SS tab with the "13" numerals, which
are far from the more improved pattern we favor seeing.
Whether the "6" and/or the "13" are authentic or not,
rests with the opinion of the viewer, as they are crude
enough to also be considered post-war. However, example
like these are known to exist and made during the WW II
era. You just have to go by your gut feeling and examine
the "possible" age of the item and make an effort to
determine what the insignia's original source was..."
Thanks to Mr. Delich for his help with our work.
I would add this: in the period before the second half of 1934, as the RFSS standardized system of uniforms became generalized, persons had their own insignia embroidered locally.
The RZM mavens make frequent reference to this practice, which was then prohibited in the second half of 1934. See my enclosure from the middle of 1934.
This fact means that a wide variation exists, as noted by my senior colleague.
A second factor is that the white textile in almost all cases will yellow to one degree or another, and if this item shows little of the latter, some skepticism is warranted.
Two things I do not like on these badges are the Leimleinen and the imitation leather strap.
The straps were just sewn into the top of the shirt sleeve in those real shirts I have seen.
Mr. Eisenschwein who is also in Germany found a black uniform with some very early shirt insignia and or tunic insignia of the 1932-33 epoch.
I do not recall where those photos are, but they are typical of the early items beyond what the Delich treasures contain.
I have utter and total faith in the Delich items as a kind of base line of what is real.
Bob Coleman is very familiar with a wide variety of badges, and maybe he will have something to say here, too.
I do not collect loose insignia.
Here are some photos of the pre34 collar tabs which were mentioned by FB. They were found in the pocket of the tunic. The white piping of the tabs is different. The vertical collar tabs have the same piping we know from the visor caps.