SS-Pioniersturmbann cuff title

[Caroline Dennard]

Hello all,

I'm posting this title with the hope of getting thoughts on authenticity. I am aware they are rare items and so I am pretty circumspect about it. My gut is that it's a fake, but I don't know enough on this topic. Unfortunately I only have the First Edition of Angolia's book on SS cloth insignia which doesn't have much detail about these to use as a reference.

Thank you in advance.

[KRISSE]

Clearly lacks the quality of an original example.

[Ullergaard]

Clearly lacks the quality of an original example.

+1

[Caroline Dennard]

Thank you!

[John4022]

Your gut feeling was right.

[DrCMH]

Here are some photos from my collection that illustrate the type of aluminium wire used in the embroidery of the insignia and the varying level of skill associated with the process. Each piece will be unique, however, there will still exist a certain level of consistency.















The embroidery on the Stammabteilung collar patch is first-rate and, in the flesh, appears almost to be a single piece of aluminium as the embroidery is very tight and the wire takes on a flat appearance.

This can also be seen in the Raute for the Medical Doctor on the San. Abt.-I Mantel. The embroidery on the Germania tunic is not bad, however, time and use have loosened the tight embroidery and oxidation has also taken its toll.

This effect of time and moisture is more apparent on the 5th Sturm cuff title and on the SD Raute. It all has its own poetry, these insignia were used, after all.

Hopefully these photos can serve as a basis for comparison for items in various states of preservation. Do compare the embroidery to the original post and note the differences.

Best,

CMH

[real steel]

Thanks for the post Dr.
To the "untrained eye", novice... some of these can be a challenge. However, when comparing to original examples readily available or side by side...the differences are obvious.
Thanks, D.

[CBH]

As always, thank you sir, for the informative and educational reply.

[Winkelman]

I wonder if a bullion version of this title even existed , I can only find flatwire up till now .
Here's a machine embroidered RZM version with matching collar tab >> SS-Pioniersturmbann cuff title RZM version ..

[DrCMH]

Of passing interest, the silk visor of Erich Heinrich in my collection has some relationship to the SS-Pioniersturmbann. According to documents, Heinrich was appointed 2nd Administrative Officer of SS-Pioniersturmbann, Dresden on November 1st, 1935. Perhaps he obtained this item during his time with the SS-Pioniersturmbann before transferring to III/SS-“Germania”.