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Was this SS uniform possible?

Article about: Hello all and I direct this to FB especially. These photos below have been left un answered on another forum and I am looking for some clarification on the originality of the uniform or the

  1. #1

    Default Was this SS uniform possible?

    Hello all and I direct this to FB especially. These photos below have been left un answered on another forum and I am looking for some clarification on the originality of the uniform or the photos as a matter of fact. The red lines were already in the photos but the area of interest for me and is also questionable is the cap in the first photo. I have never seen a grey SS cap with the 1935 style combination of eagle and skull being used on what looks like a late period or 1938 style uniform. I have never seen in any period photograph the use of the cap eagle skull combination,, except on the black uniforms. The grey uniform did not exist yet. (( take note of the pointed winged sleeve eagle )) in the first photo compared to the SS sleeve eagle in the 3rd photo. Im not sure of this one but I know for a fact that i have never seen a grey type SS cap using the 1929 SA/SS eagle style eagle. I am led to believe that the pictures may not be authentic and possible could be made up recently as technology grows in ageing photos easily on a computer. If i am wrong I gladly welcome any input provided documentation can dispel my doubts of authenticity. Please post photos if there is any truth still surving with this combination.Not once in my 40 years of interest have I, encountered in any period photograph the use of the early SS eagle being used on a grey cap. Most of those who collect SS artifacts or are intrigued by the Organization itself will agree that 1938 ushered in the "New type uniform". The growing menace of creating and duplicating photos in this day is growing quickly and accurately. Anyone can dress up in a uniform and use period artifacts to add originality and use an advanced type of "photoshop" to complete the process. below are 3 photos for review. Regards Larry
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  3. #2

    Default Re: Was this SS uniform possible?

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ID:	323885The portrait of the officer with the SS Degen is likely from 1936, and indeed, this grey uniform was well in use in the SSVT at just this time. The grey cap with the SA/SS badge is to be seen in Mollo, vol. III as well as many images we have posted here in these threads, as well as in various other sources. The grey uniform was in use well before 1938, in fact. We have many images, especially from Mr. d'Alquen, who is the real master of this material, to illustrate my generalization and maybe he will post them. Hitler made a late 1935 visit to the barracks in Berlin Lichterfelde to address his LAH, and one can see much of the officer corps in grey uniform with just such a cap. The photo reportage of the LAH in grey uniform in late 1935 is widely reproduced and I will find an image. See also the illustration on p. 37 of vol. III of Mollo.Click image for larger version. 

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    The Weidinger books on Das Reich also have illustrations of this early grey uniform in its variety, as do other works in some number. The earth grey uniform came into use in 1934, actually, and is so listed in the price list, here enclosed. The grey peaked cap is present the next year, as much as I can determine, but is not in the lists I have seen.Click image for larger version. 

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    A dead Himmler leaves behind riddles and enigmas that confound generations unborn.
    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 03-24-2012 at 09:48 PM.
    damit, basta.

  4. #3

    Default Re: Was this SS uniform possible?

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ID:	323891I actually own a swatch of earth brown SS cloth from the year 1935, which looks awfully grey to me, in fact.
    damit, basta.

  5. #4

    Default Re: Was this SS uniform possible?

    I take your point about fake pictures, but one fact you exclude to your own detriment is this: military tailoring is hardly a widespread art today, and one can rapidly tell a uniform that does not fit well. The uniforms worn by this Austrian, Preuer, fit well. I have about three plus decades of work in archives, museums, and other historical holdings, and am well aware of fake images. However, these strike me as authentic. Also, the fakers are often poorly educated, have little insight into the finer points of SS regalia, and the grey cap on this officer's head is especially of the species of the year in question, a generalization that arises from the ownership of more than one authentic SS peaked cap for officers of this era. Also, as you also know, SSVT D was filled with Austrian illegal Nazis who had fled after 1933/4, and Preuer, the man in question, was one of these men.
    damit, basta.

  6. #5

    Default Re: Was this SS uniform possible?

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ID:	323893Here are two pre-war grey caps in my collection. One has a price tag from the brauner Laden, Globus, in Nuremberg, and it indeed may be from the year 1935, though I would not swear to it. The other cap has its badges and buttons marked to the year 1938. It was sold to me as earth grey, but you can see here it is close to field grey. In real life, it looks pretty grey, too, i.e. Rw grey.....

    The price tag, or price list tag in the grey cap is similar to this one from a black cap of mine, also from the year 1935, which is in the Shea Beaver book. Name:  HG-38b.jpg
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    Such tags indicate the item number, and, it seems, the date of the price list or inventory list. In fact, such a system is still used in Austria, at least in one hat store I buy from.....

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    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 03-25-2012 at 01:51 AM.
    damit, basta.

  7. #6

    Default Re: Was this SS uniform possible?

    Mr. d'Alquen, though, is the real master of all this photo research.
    damit, basta.

  8. #7

    Default Re: Was this SS uniform possible?

    "What a good portrait. Quintessential SS-VT and a clear view of the early grey cap. Personally I would have been inclined to think this picture was taken in 1935. I'm not an edged weapon collector and can't recall seeing a document giving the date for the introduction of the SS-Degen."
    The photo was discussed elsewhere on the site, HPL going for a date of 1936 for the picture and me for 1935.
    d'Alquen

  9. #8

    Default Re: Was this SS uniform possible?

    Quote by d'alquen View Post
    "What a good portrait. Quintessential SS-VT and a clear view of the early grey cap. Personally I would have been inclined to think this picture was taken in 1935. I'm not an edged weapon collector and can't recall seeing a document giving the date for the introduction of the SS-Degen."
    The photo was discussed elsewhere on the site, HPL going for a date of 1936 for the picture and me for 1935.
    d'Alquen
    Thanks.
    damit, basta.

  10. #9

    Default Re: Was this SS uniform possible?

    Siegfried B,
    The wearing of a first pattern eagle on the grey uniform, whilst not commonly encountered, can be found in period pictures of the SS-VT.
    Here for example is a picture of Karl Kreutz taken in January 1936 wearing the badge. Most of his fellow LAH officers at this time preferred an army eagle.
    d'Alquen
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  11. #10

    Default Re: Was this SS uniform possible?

    Quote by d'alquen View Post
    Siegfried B,
    The wearing of a first pattern eagle on the grey uniform, whilst not commonly encountered, can be found in period pictures of the SS-VT.
    Here for example is a picture of Karl Kreutz taken in January 1936 wearing the badge. Most of his fellow LAH officers at this time preferred an army eagle.
    d'Alquen
    Thanks, again. I knew you have many such fine images. Marvelous cap.
    damit, basta.

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