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SS wool armband w/ cloth tag (possible fake)

Article about: Here's an item I came across while browsing the various militaria sites. At first glance, this armband has the characteristics you look for: horizontal ribs in the roundel and black stripes,

  1. #11
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    Some authentic pieces for comparison:

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  3. #12

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    Quote by DrCMH View Post
    I have a bit more confidence in the second item posted, however, it would obviously be something to inspect in person.

    Regards,

    CMH
    I appreciate your opinion! Given that we are both on the fence about that first armband and suspect it might be a fake, I doubt that I would attempt to purchase it... I'm still rather concerned about the second armband, though. As it is being sold online, I can't check it out in person. Don't you find it odd that the maker space is blank on the paper RZM tag?

  4. #13
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    Quote by daveward View Post
    I appreciate your opinion! Given that we are both on the fence about that first armband and suspect it might be a fake, I doubt that I would attempt to purchase it... I'm still rather concerned about the second armband, though. As it is being sold online, I can't check it out in person. Don't you find it odd that the maker space is blank on the paper RZM tag?
    It is a poor quality image to be certain. The RZM tag looks fine, to me at lest. There appears to be a faint stamp concerning the manufacturer...27x? I'm sorry I can not put a definitive answer on the authenticity of the examples you posted, however, if the dealer offers an inspection period then you could get them in-hand and draw the most informed conclusion.

    Good luck collecting.

    CMH

  5. #14

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    Quote by DrCMH View Post
    It is a poor quality image to be certain. The RZM tag looks fine, to me at lest. There appears to be a faint stamp concerning the manufacturer...27x? I'm sorry I can not put a definitive answer on the authenticity of the examples you posted, however, if the dealer offers an inspection period then you could get them in-hand and draw the most informed conclusion.

    Good luck collecting.

    CMH
    WOW, you must have some really good eyes! I could barely make out anything in the A4 space! It could very well be "275," a maker code that has been seen on other armbands. For example, "275" is shown on an HJ armband on this forum, written in pencil (HJ Armband). Perhaps this one was written in pencil, too? I can make out something very faint there, but it doesn't look uniform enough to be a stamp...

  6. #15

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    I wouldn't get too hung up on the 'mintiness' factor. If the piece in question has been stuck in a box in a cupboard for 60+ years and the moths/silverfish haven't had their evil way with it, the colours should be bright and vibrant as ever.

    My 'minty SS' for example...

    Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #16

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    For what it's worth, I'm not sure that's a stamp on the second one. It looks like dirt to me that happens to make part of a "2".

    Here's a high contrast shot of it, where you really only see the lower part of the numeral take any real form. I could be wrong, but it's definitely something I'd ask the seller about and for a higher res closeup of the tag before buying.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Glenn66, beautiful armband. Just like I'm hoping to find for my collections example.
    "Only a real risk tests the reality of a belief." - C.S. Lewis

  8. #17

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    Dr. CMH, one of my favorite collectors, has given very sound advice here.

    Rather than peering at pictures and then declaiming to the world how one feels about the image, the successful collector will sally forth and look with his or her own eyes and employ all the senses
    as well as the mind and character.

    Do read what Bob Hritz had to say about unsuccessful collectors and their traits of character.

    ".....Sadly, many people are failures at collecting because they were raised in the 'instant gratification' era and demand that everyone else must do their work for them, or that they must be provided a risk-free, profit-guaranteed hobby. Since no human endeavour is risk-free and guarantees a profit, these are the collectors who fall by the wayside or collect the jetsom and flotsam that floats upon the sea of collectibles...."


    SS Kampfbinden have been faked well for fifty years.

    Many of you would be unable to detect an old fake, actually.

    The best advice I can give is to buy from a sound source, even if this act means paying more money.

    Many authentic, unused arm bands have survived.

    These items formerly cost fifteen dollars US ca. 1969.

    None of the issues in the above posts strike me as relevant in such a search

    I actually examine the thing to make up my mind

    I look at the red textile, which is very distinct and the copies are never the right color or the right fabric

    the worksmanship of the Hakenkreuz. The fakes are lumpy.

    The roundel, which has a distinct textile and is usually soiled, even slightly, or faded. If it is bluish white, then that's an issue.

    These were left in an unissued state in large numbers. Nonetheless, even if the unissued ones turn ever so slightly yellow with time. Click image for larger version. 

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    The black fabric RZM tags are faked, but these can be compared to the original to detect the errors.

    The paper tags are faked, too, and again, the way to compare is with an original and the target item.

    In fact, that's exactly what I do, I take the target item in my hand and with my tired, old, and beady eyes, I do compare it to several real items in my collection.

    As Dr. CMH says, buy the thing on approval, and return it, if it is no good.
    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 02-16-2015 at 07:39 PM.
    damit, basta.

  9. #18

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    FB, DrCMH, do we ever see RZM tags that were not maker stamped that are also authentic?
    "Only a real risk tests the reality of a belief." - C.S. Lewis

  10. #19

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    I have seen many RZM tags without Hersteller stamps that are nonetheless authentic. Or the stamp is so faint as to be invisible.

    I also base my generalizations on actual items of regalia, not on www. dot@pictures. My formative experience of collecting was devoid of any electronic aids of any kind.

    The Jack Pia "SS regalia" book was a revolution, in that one had color photos of real items, but I had been at it for a decade already when it came along. Click image for larger version. 

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    damit, basta.

  11. #20

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    Name:  278407d1318211663-foetid-woolens-cyber-crime-globalized-world-asset.php-b-.jpg
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Size:  32.1 KBIf, instead of comparing images on dealers sites--which to me is like searching on the beach for grains of sand-- you deepen yourself in the primary sources, you will find fairly quickly that the RZM created regulations and rules, as did the Reichsfuehrung SS, which did not find universal adherence. We have spent a lot of time exploring just this very theme in dozens of highly revealing threads.

    You may be astonished that people in Germany did not follow the rules, especially when these rules were confusing to people at the time. If you can actually read these directives, they are in a turgid,
    bloated official German which is remarkable for its suffocating complexity.

    More so are the "aw sh!t" directives that followed the initial two orders to make this change or that change.

    The "instant gratification" collector is undone by this complexity, which is unfortunate, because such richness makes this undertaking more interesting.
    damit, basta.

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