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Tunics Type

Article about: In 09 I will show a nice tunic I found in 08. I am just to busy for photos right now and it is anyhow good stored in good Germany.

  1. #1

    Default Tunics Type

    Hello friends

    please

    What type are these tunics? are they M36 or other ?

    thx
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  3. #2

    Default Re: Tunics Type

    M36 is a term invented by collectors to describe items for which the SS used different terms.

    See attached price list......please note terms used......No "M34" or "M36" to be found....

    Grey uniforms appeared quite soon in the SS, as early as 1934 in a training uniform that I think is described in the Beaver books and not in the Mollo books. The color of the grey is the issue as concerns the date, with the main variants being earth grey and field grey. The former is a brown-grey and the latter is a green-grey, as you know. The field grey I think first came into use in the Leibstandarte as a field uniform in the course of 1935, and was surely in use by the end of the year. Earth grey was the dominant field uniform color in the other branches of the SS until about 1936/7, when the field grey uniform made its way especially in field and later in garrison wear for people in full time billets.

    The Schumacher uniforms are very pleasing. As to those on European websites, I think you have to be very careful. D'Alquen can correct whatever mistakes I have made. You have to buy the Mollo and the Beaver books. The Mollo books are sort of the Basic Law of SS collecting, with some re interpretations of data in Beaver, which, to my mind, are not always convincing. But the introduction of model and year designations for these uniforms is a bad habit, which misleads collectors and only reflects a projection of US military custom on other national military and paramilitary entites. Such promotes US centric collector group think, and might make you feel better in the short term, but it only muddies waters in the long term.
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    damit, basta.

  4. #3

    Default Re: Tunics Type

    The above price list is ca. 1936 or so....it is the VA SS RZM semi annual corrections to prices as well as suspension and introduction of specific items in the VA SS price list. It is a pity that these documents are not on line. They are much more valuable than the endless, and I mean, endless re-posting of RZM licenses for things made of metal.
    damit, basta.

  5. #4

    Default Re: Tunics Type

    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    But the introduction of model and year designations for these uniforms is a bad habit, which misleads collectors and only reflects a projection of US military custom on other national military and paramilitary entites. Such promotes US centric collector group think, and might make you feel better in the short term, but it only muddies waters in the long term.
    Hear, hear! I could not agree more! I think here on this forum we should all strive to use the correct German terms.

    Cheers, Ade.

  6. #5

    Default Re: Tunics Type

    Quote by Adrian Stevenson View Post
    Hear, hear! I could not agree more! I think here on this forum we should all strive to use the correct German terms.

    Cheers, Ade.
    Dear Friend, thank you. For instance, the SS style cap badge which replaced the Danziger Totenkopf first appeared in 1933, yet is called an M1934 badge. I have learned from the excellent biography of Heini H published now in Europe that Himmler first wore the black uniform, i.e. der schwarze Rock, in very early 1932, and not in the spring (i.e. June?) of that year as is widely thought to be the case. The reality of all of this is often more complicated than we gather through the secondary sources. The Mollo books may be slightly flawed in a few details, but they have a lot of merit because they link organizational history with the regalia. This interpretative thread is not present, or scarcely so with the Beaver books, which are revealing of certain specific details, but lack the overview that is essential.

    Hence, these open collared uniforms defy a model number designation, though I am sure someone will be outraged by what I have written and force one here. But look at the price list: they simply say "earth grey" or "black" and new models and old models of regalia come and go with the most generic of descriptions, which is maddening for us to decipher. In addition to the Beaver books, which have merit surely, one should publish a visual catalog of the RZM VA SS price list for each year of its publication (1934....) with illustrations of extant pieces. That would be something.

    And greetings to Moravia. I was in Vienna at the beginning of the month and came home to awful jet lag.

    PS I do not mean this post to be offensive to my fellow North Americans, but this trait I decry above reflects a more generalized problem visible beyond our little collector tope. It is the Taylorism drive for standardization and scientific management, which in our case simply goes right by a lot of evidence that does not fit into the record of the past.
    damit, basta.

  7. #6

    Default Re: Tunics Type

    Hello Friedrich

    Thank You very much for your help and informations. Yes you are right!

    All uniforms, which I have photos, has other color, but this is problem with bad photos too. Class it is then big problem (for me it is now).

    "US classification" is easy i think, its good for start (only start!). Its my opinion. Original text material investigate is very important, there are all answers.


    Thank You once more, your opinions are very interesting and contribution for me

  8. #7

    Default Re: Tunics Type

    Gruess nach Maehren.

    The easy classification creates a certainty and order where there is confusion and disorder.

    Look at this attachment, too.

    One only writes of black and grey, as well as types of fabric to be given to tailors to make uniforms. The tailors then made their own tiny variations which loom much larger in these remaining pieces before us, i.e. the Skorzeny piece, this Schumacher tunic and the one in Germany, which I am not sure is authentic at all, actually, but that is my gut feeling.
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    damit, basta.

  9. #8

    Default Re: Tunics Type

    And such early green or grey "Dienströcke" are harder to find then the black one.

  10. #9

    Default Re: Tunics Type

    Robert hat immer Recht. The field grey open collar tunics are rare. I found one once stripped of insignia and lousy shape in a Troedelmarkt in West Berlin in January 1975 for about twenty dollars. I sold it to Heinz von Hungen. It could well have been restored. One could plainly see where the insignia had been stripped. The glamor Exponate especially on European websites for sale leave me cold. The Oak Leaf militaria man had an SD one for sale, but I did not examine it. I owned one Blusentuch one in the early 1970s, too, which I then sold. It was stripped of insignia save for the sleeve eagle. These old, silly stories are meaningless, save they highlight how rare such items are.
    damit, basta.

  11. #10

    Default Re: Tunics Type

    This is the Oak Leaf Militaria piece, I think. I have not examined this piece and make no assessment of it here.
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    damit, basta.

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