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Very Early Standartenfuhrer Collar Tabs

Article about: F-B's recent post of this portrait of Schreck shows what is probably the earliest form of tabs for Standartenfurer. They can be seen again in this portrait of Wilhelm Dreher. Both pics are c

  1. #11

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ID:	876577Here is what my mentor has to say, and he kindly included some items from his Schatzkammer.

    We all thank him warmly for this courtesy, and so many others.


    "....Schreck is, indeed, wearing a pair of aluminum hand-
    embroidered Standartenfuhrer tabs. Any metal oak leaves
    would have been the same type utilized by the SA, such as
    those the man in the 2nd photo is wearing.
    I've included several early-style pre-'42 style collar
    patches for your friend's examination.
    Note how the person who embroidered the early
    Standartenfuhrer tab embroidered the oak leaf into
    the collar tabs only after the edges of the material had been
    folded back. I have several example of this method of
    manufacture. Also, on the early Brigadefuhrer in the
    lower left-hand corner, the pip was obviously added to an
    Oberfuhrer tab when the man achieved a higher rank.
    In reference to this, I once again draw your attention to
    the man in the forum that is wearing metal oak leaves --
    he may very well have had the metal rank star added to
    his tab for the same reason.
    I had an embroidered early pre-'42 tab once (an
    Oberfuhrer) that had a metal star added to the corner,,
    even though the leaves were embroidered aluminum.
    Obviously, all vet bring-back insignia was not text-
    book as some collectors seem to think they ought to be...."

    damit, basta.

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  3. #12

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    A wonderful thread from our finest members!
    damit, basta.

  4. #13

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    Arran,
    This is the earliest style of metal oak leaf that I have seen on SA collar tabs, (the only other stamped metal style I have come across is the later version with the acorns at the stem), and it differs in shape from the SS leaf in your picture. Both this SA photo and the Schreck portrait were taken by Hoffmann in the same time period (late 1933). I think I have a photograph of the style shown in your post that shows differing stem lengths that would tend to indicate hand embroidery. I will try and find that shot and post it.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #14

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    Nice close-up d'Alquen. This style of leaf for the SA was adopted from the Reichsbahn
    and was known as the first form, proceeded in about 1933 with the form for the SA,
    which we in general know. I was given a hint for this by a good Dutch friend and collector,
    who is well-known with the SA.
    The Reichsbahn device was introduced in about 1924 (see photo's, credit: Hartmut Schöttge).

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    Additional information:
    Not topic in relation for the device for the SS, but interesting to know.
    Standartenführer for the SA did wear since 1926 four pips (SA-Befehl 12 from November 12,
    1926
    ). A leaf was not worn at all for years. As far as I know the leaf as shown here came into
    being with an order from April 22, 1931 (OSAF-order Ia Nr. 1679/31), existing in silver and
    gold.
    With an order from July 31, 1933 (OSAF-order I Nr. 1404 33 II.Ang) the new device for
    Standartenführer was announced. The RZM had to take care for a quickest manufacturing.
    The old device was allowed to be worn until October 1, 1933. See image for the new device:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Wilhelm Saris; 08-28-2015 at 10:30 PM.
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  6. #15

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    Fascinating.

    I had never noticed the similiarity between these early SA oak leaf devices and those used for the 1924 model Reichsbahn collar patches and would probably have never made the mental connection necessary to even consider comparing them...

    Thanks to everyone involved in what is another brilliant little thread!

  7. #16
    ?

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    Thank you ALL for participating in this thread. I now believe that both sets of tabs in the pics I posted are aluminum embroidered, and of the type shown in the upper left of Mr. Delich's lovely collection in post 11. This pattern of Standartenfuhrer's oak leaf is most appealing in its asymmetry and natural appearance, and I believe this thread is the first time its been clearly documented. Note also that it appears to be embroidered on wool rather than velvet (please correct me if I'm wrong).

  8. #17

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    You are correct Arran, the base of the collar tab is wool. You can see it in this close-up of the picture you posted. As I mentioned, the photograph was taken sometime in late '33 and the velvet backing was not introduced until December 1, 1933.

    Der Reichsfuehrer-SS
    IV Tgb.Nr.49 103
    Muenchen, 1 Dezember 1933
    Die Spiegel der SS-Dienstgrade vom SS-Standartenfuehrer einschliesslich nach oben sind anstatt aus schwarzem Tuch aus schwarzen Samt.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #18

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    When the moderators get a chance, this thread should be added to the pinned reference section, please.
    damit, basta.

  10. #19

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    See additional information to post 14, which I added later (for the interest
    of those for the SA). It all came to me during a short investigation for the
    device as used by the Zeugmeister. For this I keep it in embargo, as
    my friend is working for a book about SA devices (collar-patches and such).
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  11. #20

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    Quote by Wilhelm Saris View Post
    See additional information to post 14, which I added later (for the interest
    of those for the SA).
    Wonderful. Thank you all so much. Thanks to Arran for his fine idea for this thread. He is a person of great knowledge and refined taste.

    Thanks for the exemplary collaboration.
    damit, basta.

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