Vintage and maker of Allgemeine SS OR visor

**wwmilitaria** · 08-21-2010, 04:27 PM

Gentlemen,
I kept wondering for some time now about the approxiamte vintage and perhaps the maker of that Allgemeine visor.
Find pictures coming up.

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 08-21-2010 04:27 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**wwmilitaria** · 08-21-2010, 04:30 PM

...more shots...

**wwmilitaria** · 08-21-2010, 04:34 PM

...some more...

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 08-21-2010, 08:30 PM

Yours is a somewhat unconventional piece, which seems to have no RZM tag. The tag offers the best way to place the item in the years 1933-1940 or so, as well as identify the maker. Your piece diverges from certain traits normal to these caps. The cap with the higher peak and with tricot cap cover came into general use ca. 1935 and later. The Sonderanfertigung cap had the silken or imitation silk lining.

The fabric gusset on the sweat band is in the style of Peter Kupper, but not limited to same.

The maker is really unimportant versus the cap's authenticity. You also have to be certain the thing is not assembled from parts.

Shea has an authentic one of these on offer on his site at the moment, a Wagner Sonderanfertigung.

I repeat that the mania on makers is really a kind of collector bubble of false parameters of rareness. The thing is either real or it is not.

Thanks for showing your item.

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 08-21-2010, 08:51 PM

Tags represent a way to tell in a general way the date of make as well as the maker itself.

See examples below.

From top to bottom

a later tag ca. 1938/9 Wagner
b. very early tag ca. 1933/4 Kupper
c. tag ca. 1935/6 Mueller
d, tag ca. 1934/5 Isken

Without such tags one is at a loss to establish things, unless there is a leather maker date stamp in the sweat band.
The above are guesses based a lot of evidence as well as some of the RZM publications. See the Saris books.

Forty and more years elapsed for me to figure all of this out, and I am not 100% certain of all the dates and whatnot.

Potscriptum: the fakes of black SS caps today are very sophisticated, not the least because of a handful of us have unwittingly aided the fakers in a kind of blind folly that saddens me greatly.

**wwmilitaria** · 08-22-2010, 10:10 AM

Thanks a lot. It actually does have a RZM tag inside (see picture) The manufacturer number however is not legible anymore.
I also thought of Peküro due to interior construction (I compared it to several original Peküro caps of other services I own).
I can say that the cap is consistent as it is and not tampered with. I shows a lot of wear while the seams are not altered.
Waht strikes me is the special shape of the cello sweat shield and the zig-zag stitching it is applied with.

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 08-22-2010, 03:06 PM

by wwmilitaria

Thanks a lot. It actually does have a RZM tag inside (see picture) The manufacturer number however is not legible anymore.
I also thought of Peküro due to interior construction (I compared it to several original Peküro caps of other services I own).
I can say that the cap is consistent as it is and not tampered with. I shows a lot of wear while the seams are not altered.
Waht strikes me is the special shape of the cello sweat shield and the zig-zag stitching it is applied with.

This is an authentic tag that matches the cap. I would guess the cap is ca. 1938 or so, or 1939 for various unscientific reasons.
It is a Sonderanfertigung, that is, better order of dress cap. The challenge is to find the right neusilber insignia, which is costly and irritating in detail. Thanks for sharing your material with us. The silver runic mark is also a variation from the normal gold leaf ish runics, too. I have seen such silver marks more in earlier caps. One cannot account for all the variations, nor are such really so significant so long as the thing is real.

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 08-22-2010, 09:00 PM

If memory serves, Ben VK and Chris Stonemint have analyzed a similar cap with the Einlage which originated from another maker.
Ben VK is frequently here nowadays, and he can analyze this piece, too.

Once more, I find the question of one maker versus the other to be really besides the point.

The Sonderanfertigung cap is much more rare than the standard variety.

**wwmilitaria** · 08-24-2010, 04:55 PM

Thanks a lot. Well, I just asked about the maker in the first place to find more about the item as such. I did not suggest it was worth more if it was from a specific maker. So I got your point!
As you said, finding the right insignia might be difficult. That's why I am not planning on keeping the cap anyways.

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 08-25-2010, 04:12 AM

by wwmilitaria

Thanks a lot. Well, I just asked about the maker in the first place to find more about the item as such. I did not suggest it was worth more if it was from a specific maker. So I got your point!
As you said, finding the right insignia might be difficult. That's why I am not planning on keeping the cap anyways.

Your cap is an interesting variation. My didactic point on cap makers is not intended for this case, but others in their number. Please forgive my hectoring tone. I am sure someone will give a fine home to your nice cap.