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Waffen -SS elite troops?

Article about: I've been thinking about the structure of SS. I have some points about it. The SS TV and SS VT was a elite troops with their own structure, supply etc which was highest quality. After 1942 y

  1. #1
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    Default Waffen -SS elite troops?

    I've been thinking about the structure of SS.

    I have some points about it. The SS TV and SS VT was a elite troops with their own structure, supply etc which was highest quality. After 1942 year when the Third Reich heads opened their eyes to the problem of the war- where to get the people resources - fresh meat, H.Himmlers looks like solved this problem being created national units which became a part in the Waffen SS as volunteers, that was more honorable to serve in the elite troops as the own national unit, which was the way of the good propaganda. The ground for creating that kind of units was probably the one of the firstly created units - Wilddiebcommando Dirlewanger, approx 60% of the unit was ex-USSR citizens, they make a big bloody footsteps in the Belorussia and the fight against Partisans ( mostly against their families- the civil village habitants) This operations show necessarity to have troops for different purposes, to save the professional troops for the theater of the war

    From that period Waffen SS get solved problem with not cheap uniforms supply- before all uniforms was made by private firms who had work under the regulation and quality control of RZM. But freshly made units has a needs in uniform- all of the different structures which was under the control of Himmler like concentration camps begin the work with supplying troops, even the stocks was overfilled with trophee clothings. Newely regulation of uniform as M42 tunics has gotten more cheaper construction which save the production costs.
    We can discuss about the military graduation of the volunteer troops: most of the newely created units was arranged from the peoples with even zero school education, and most of them was ususal farmers from the contries with more weaker stability as a Germany. They was not a professional military educated soldiers, who get a short mitary educations in the training camps, and recieved old and cheap foreign weapons, sometimes that was a 50 years old guns
    For example, who is the better soldier:
    Wehrmacht educated officer ( in family generation with a military traditions) who recieved military education from the childhood, or even a Feldwebel with 12 years service.
    Or an "redneck" farmer who have not even a school graduate, and then 3 months of training camps? Could this redneck a good tank driver or a flyer?
    Also that is not a secret that some of the units which was created from Eastern Freiwilligen upholded with the highest awards.
    For example: Danish volunteers and Latvian volunteers. Even over the different kampaigns, hard battles in Wolchow front- Demjansk etc, there was no Knights Cross recipients in Danish units untill 1944 year.( I did not think they was not brave men, they was fight anought good, just a policy for recipient was different )
    In most cases Legions in the 3rd Reich was not a elite troops but a conscript and militia like troops
    That is the same as in French foreign Legion in the period of French operation - they have a very low morale and military education
    Any thoughts are welcome
    Regards,
    Dimas

    my Skype: warrelics

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  3. #2

    Default Re: Waffen -SS elite troops?

    IMO the only elite SS troops were the early 1 , 2 ,3 and 5 Divisions before they started to replace them with lesser calibre troops.

    I say elite but only in the respect they were fearless, heartless, indoctrinated, 'Die for the Fuhrer' soldiers but in no way any better than than many Wehrmacht Divisions for bravery, determination, techniqe and strategy.

    Nick
    Last edited by Woolgar; 02-10-2011 at 12:19 PM.
    "In all my years as a soldier, I have never seen men fight so hard." - SS Obergruppenfuhrer Wilhelm Bittrich - Arnhem

  4. #3
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    Default Re: Waffen -SS elite troops?

    I agree, they grow from SS VT and SS TV
    Regards,
    Dimas

    my Skype: warrelics

  5. #4
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    Default Re: Waffen -SS elite troops?

    Very interesting thread Dimas, thanks for the insight. Gives one something to think about...
    Cheers, Edwin

  6. #5

    Default Re: Waffen -SS elite troops?

    Quote by Dimas View Post
    I agree, they grow from SS VT and SS TV
    Indeed
    "In all my years as a soldier, I have never seen men fight so hard." - SS Obergruppenfuhrer Wilhelm Bittrich - Arnhem

  7. #6

    Default Re: Waffen -SS elite troops?

    Quote by Stickgrenade View Post
    IMO the only elite SS troops were the early 1 , 2 ,3 and 5 Divisions before they started to replace them with lesser calibre troops.

    I say elite but only in the respect they were fearless, heartless, indoctrinated, 'Die for the Fuhrer' soldiers but in no way any better than than many Wehrmacht Divisions for bravery, determination, techniqe and strategy.

    Nick
    How dare you forget the 9th 10th 12th and 17th! (or at least the 12th!).

  8. #7

    Default Re: Waffen -SS elite troops?

    Quote by Killroy View Post
    How dare you forget the 9th 10th 12th and 17th! (or at least the 12th!).
    Of all SS Divisions I have the most respect for the 12th. They were not elite but were resilient, stubborn and indeed brave youngsters who from June 1944 to May 1945 lost 10500 men. They came into the war late and faced overwhelming odds!

    Nick
    "In all my years as a soldier, I have never seen men fight so hard." - SS Obergruppenfuhrer Wilhelm Bittrich - Arnhem

  9. #8
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    Default Re: Waffen -SS elite troops?

    Elite troops firstly who is well teached
    Regards,
    Dimas

    my Skype: warrelics

  10. #9

    Default Re: Waffen -SS elite troops?

    The administrative hand book of the Waffen SS specified that foreign troops in the Waffen SS were to receive the same quality equipment as their German counter parts. However, the quality of all such things declined with the course of the war. A well known story. The best recent work on the foreign units in the Wehrmacht and Waffen SS is Rolf Dieter Mueller, An der Seite der Wehrmacht, (Links: Berlin, 2007). The question of elite is well treated in Wegner's book on the Waffen SS, as well as reading Himmler's speeches in the edition of Smith/Peterson from the 1970s.Click image for larger version. 

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    damit, basta.

  11. #10

    Default Re: Waffen -SS elite troops?

    Also, if you seriously interested in education and training in German military, I can provide you with titles of note.
    damit, basta.

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