What defines an "early" SS cap?

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Two early caps with tall and taller crowns. The one of the left is the ex Mollo, ex Chapman cap, which has a quite tall crown. Neither has any RZM markings The ex Mollo ex Chapman cap is in the Wim Saris book, as well as some other books, I think....

[Friedrich-Berthold]

This cap has a small crown.

[Wilhelm Saris]

Thanks mr. d'Alquen. I must admit I did not have this order. I knew there were caps that had the
silver piping (visible on photographs). I always thought Himmler was the person to wear this.
Aluminum was not used in the beginning, as far as I know. I thought since about 1931-1932.
SS-Be nr. 22 still mentions silver - Mützenrand silberumrandet). Since late 1933
the piping was phrased as aluminumsilberne Paspel (IV Tgb. Nr. 49 103).

No book about the TR is complete, I think! Much SS information I did not have available when I wrote
the book. This material came in later.

With the mentioned order from late 1933 it was noted as with number 4:
The ranks SS-Oberführer including and upwards the SS visored cap (SS-Dienstmütze) will be changed
in such way that instead the three white pipings aluminum-silver pipings are worn. So before this date
all pipings must have been white (anyway with the visored caps).

mr. d'Alquen: do you know from what date SS-Befehl nr. 22 is or must be about?

[jHAM]

Thanks to F-B, Mr. Coleman, Mr. Saris and Mr. d'alquen for another first rate thread. Threads like this make me feel thankful to the kind souls who share their knowledge. What separates this forum from others is the quality and generosity of those who share. I am thankful to be in their company and lucky in that I can even participate!

[Thanatos]

Thanks to F-B, Mr. Saris and Mr. d'alquen for another first rate thread. Threads like this make feel thankful to the kind souls who share their knowledge. What separates this forum from others is the quality and generosity of those who share. I am thankful to be in their company and lucky in that I can even participate!

Well said jHam.
We are all indeed indebted to those who freely pass on knowledge that may have taken almost a life time to obtain.
As you say it is this that sets this forum apart from others.
My thanks as well.

Best Regards

Dave

[d'alquen]

Wim,
"do you know from what date SS-Befehl nr. 22 is or must be about?"
The copy I have has a hand written amendment dating it to 4.2.31. Presumably correct as SS-Befehl Nr. 23 is officially dated 12. Febr. 1931.
d'Alquen

[Wilhelm Saris]

mr. d'alquen: Thanks for the information. I had rated it somewhat later.
With my copy the date was "removed"!

I thought the order had to do with the enlarging for the SA and SS from February 1931,
as mentioned in "Daten der Geschichte der NSDAP".

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Thanks to colleagues for the nice primary sources. Such things are always of great merit and they set our site beyond the competition.
My goal with this thread was to encourage exactly this kind of collective reflection which has so much merit.
Thanks and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to one and all, and happy holidays, too...!

[BenVK]

The Lubstein creation as shown in this thread deserves a place in this discussion.

https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/cloth...muetze-371672/

A very interesting hat for sure due to several "early" features such as the melton type wool fabric, low profile and the short side lining sewn directly to the pasteboard which is a very common 1920/30's technique.

What I didn't notice before though is the 4 metal frischluft grommets installed under the cap cover. Unusual for an SS cap but commonly seen on a Polizei cap so perhaps Lubstein used one of his existing Polizei patterns in the construction of this one during one of the many phases of flux?

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Ben, the four metal thingies are found among the first or second species of RFSS pattern cap. I own three like it. Thanks for adding that newly found early cap.