View Poll Results: Fake or Authentic? WWII Waffen-SS M43 & M40 Tunics with full Insignia

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  • Is the M43 Tunic Authentic?

    0 0%
  • Is the M40 Tunic Authentic?

    0 0%
  • Is the Götz von Berlichingen Cuff Title Authentic?

    0 0%
  • Is the M40 Tunic Sleeve Eagle Authentic?

    0 0%
  • Is the M40 Collar Tabs & Shoulder Boards Authentic?

    0 0%
  • Is the M43 Collar Tabs & Shoulder Boards Authentic?

    0 0%
  • Is the M43 Tunic Stamps Authentic?

    0 0%
  • Is the M40 Tunic Stamps Authentic?

    0 0%
  • Is Both Tunics Wrong & Fake?

    4 100.00%
  • Is the M40 & M43 Tunic look authentic but something on them is wrong?

    0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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WWII Waffen-SS Elite M40 Götz von Berlichingen & M43 Signal Corps Tunics complete with Insignia (Authentic or Fake?) Help?

Article about: WWII Waffen-SS Elite M40 Götz von Berlichingen & M43 Signal Corps Tunics complete with Insignia (Authentic or Fake?) Help? I have these limited photographs available currently but will g

  1. #1

    Default WWII Waffen-SS Elite M40 Götz von Berlichingen & M43 Signal Corps Tunics complete with Insignia (Authentic or Fake?) Help?

    WWII Waffen-SS Elite M40 Götz von Berlichingen & M43 Signal Corps Tunics complete with Insignia (Authentic or Fake?) Help?
    I have these limited photographs available currently but will get more soon from a private collection in Germany.

    These are very pricey and I am still a learner and rookie with SS insignia and tunics, stamps and cuff titles.
    I would very much appreciate some help to identify weather these tunics are original.. even at a 50/50 chance, what parts on them are fake or weather these are mint untouched pieces.. weather it all looks good accept for a certain patch like the eagles fro example may have been removed during the War and then replaced with with the wrong eagle maybe.. I have no idea and need professional help to tell me weather these are very possibly original or if they are all completely wrong?

    However if these are wrong, please point out what is wrong, what is right, what is possibly correct and what is unknown please.. I need to weigh up the money against the possibility of these being right or wrong.
    I thank you for your help my friends!

    I am looking to get something like this as a gift to my dad and want something that is most likely or very high chance to be authentic once handled in person and carefully researched and tested. These tunic have also been tested with the black light or blue light and tested positive for 0% nylon or any material that shine or glow.

    First Tunic: WWII Waffen-SS Elite M40 Panzer "Götz von Berlichingen" Tunic

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Name:  Waffen-SS M40 Tunic (Front).JPG
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Name:	Waffen-SS M40 Tunic (Full Sleeve).jpg 
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Name:	Waffen-SS M40 Tunic (Rear Side).jpg 
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Name:	Waffen-SS M40 Tunic (Awards).jpg 
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Name:	Waffen-SS M40 Tunic (Belt Hook Holes).jpg 
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Name:	Waffen-SS M40 Tunic (Eagle).jpg 
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Name:	Waffen-SS M40 Tunic (Stamp).jpg 
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Name:	Waffen-SS M40 Tunic (Cuff Title).jpg 
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Name:	Götz von Berlichingen Cuff Title (Exact Same Cuff Title off another Tunic) 01.jpg 
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    Second Tunic: WWII Waffen-SS M43 Signal Corps Tunic

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Name:	Waffen-SS M43 Tunic (Front).jpg 
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Name:	Waffen-SS M43 Tunic (Stamps & Inside).jpg 
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    Thank you for looking and for all the help my friends, all the best!
    Will add more pictures hopefully tomorrow when I get a few more that are important.


    I finally got the new pictures which is the last to determine the complete picture of the M43 SS Tunic..
    Please tell what you guys think of these few details on this tunic? I thank you very much.

    Attachment 1002646
    Attachment 1002639
    Attachment 1002640
    Attachment 1002641
    Attachment 1002642
    Attachment 1002643
    Attachment 1002644
    Attachment 1002645

    Thank you kindly for looking, now we can determine it's possible authenticity or see if these aren't right.. I need someone who has much more experience one this, especially the eagle which looks a 100% to me but again, I can't judge for myself unless I get the books out of the museum which is currently impossible as it is locked up and the family is in Malta currently.

    I found a near exact identical Sleeve eagle from the NET to compare with the one on the tunic I bought: WW2 GERMAN WAFFEN SS OFFICER’S UNIFORM EAGLE – JB Military Antiques



    Front
    Attachment 1002663

    Back
    Attachment 1002664


    Here are also some similar variant shoulder boards like this tunic has as a comparison factor.. these come from a site that sells Authentic WWII German Insignia. So I found these examples.. if this is of any help.

    Attachment 1002668
    Attachment 1002669
    Attachment 1002670
    Attachment 1002671
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Leopardesigns; 09-26-2016 at 03:42 PM.

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  3. #2

    Default

    all them insignia are bad fakes

  4. #3

    Default

    It is very likely that the M40 of the x2 tunics was never used in combat because of it's well preserved inside which doesn't look worn like a real combat tunic which would arouse high suspicion I can imagine! And allot of WWII collectables were de-natzified after WWII.. so I won't judge the tunics on their eagle insignia I have posted so far because they may have very well been removed and replaced which might be a high possibility.

    When I get both tunics and still unsure of these tunics I would like to actually see how the Cuff Title, Eagles and Collar Tabs look like behind them to get a much clearer picture! I appreciate everyone comments and future comment but I would appreciate discretion and to actually say in sentences what anyone thinks of these and not just a short 5 word reply please.

    If anyone says in one word "FAKE" then that person must really truly and honestly mean the entire tunic, with tunics are 100% in every fibre FAKE.. not shoot the entire tunic down just because a single tiny item looks bad! And if all these insignia look bad to most "would have to wait and see" then they might be yes but.. the tunics themselves might be unmistakable originals! Which would by definition mean: that some took authentic tunics and put all the insignia on themselves without caring much for originality right?!

    I personally with all my 36 hours of research so far in books and internet research and photographs.. think that these tunics are unmistakable originals in mint condition but.. I am suspicious about the one Tunic's sleeve BeVo Eagle patch, would have to see what the other one looks like still! Both these are bought so it's too late to turn back now but I am hopeful for good results.. and then the M40 Tunic's Cuff Title is another semi-suspicious item to me mainly because there aren't many examples on the entire internet available and not sure if there were more manufacturers on this specific Cuff Title or how they varied in production over the years in Germany's past.. so far it looks like a very nicely made BeVo Cuff Title but the letter "Z" is different from the few I've seen on the internet and a few other letter as in slight different shapes that the few I've seen but that doesn't mean it's a fake.

    So far two major sites with top professionals said that it all looks very good but they would have to handle the tunics in person to view them and research them closely which is a good sign but to me still a 50/50 chance to keep realistic and respectable.

    Would appreciate anyone who had experience in many of these tunics to deliver their comments and to specify exactly what they think and their meaning and also examples of other tunics to compare to these would be appreciated!

    Thank you very much!

  5. #4

    Default

    I don't study tunics very much but I believe the cut of the lining in the M43 is not correct for an SS tunic, so, that being said and the fact that it has an SS BW stamp, (although faded badly), would put me off of buying this even if I wanted one really badly.
    Ralph.
    Searching for anything relating to, Anton Boos, 934 Stamm. Kp. Pz. Erz. Abt. 7, 3 Kompanie, Panzer-Regiment 2, 16th Panzer-Division (My father)

  6. #5

    Default WWII Waffen-SS M43 Tunic's ling is exactly the same as on The Collectors Guild EM/NCO'S M43 FIELD BLOUSE (Feldbluse M43)

    I appreciate your comment and I understand your meaning, however what you mentioned is interesting because one of my most respected friends and one of the few most respected and knowledgable people who is a true expert in these tunics and almost everything with a lifetime of experience in collecting, dealing and studying WWII German memorabilia is Peter from The Collectors Guild, German Militaria.. and he only takes on and sells the very best stuff available that he can find!

    He also certifies and authenticates WWII memorabilia and all of his friends and associates would agree and if someone didn't they would let an item slide, and he is very specific and would only truly say something is original when he receives it in person and studies it, tests it and checks every single finest detail to determine weather an item is original or not and only those items that would pass as a un-doubtful 100% original would he put on his site to sell with provenance or it's certificate of authenticity and sells on The Collectors Guild as one of the few most trusted sites World-Wide for top dollar.

    With that being said, one tunic that caught my eye was this one... and this tunic is available for sale on the The Collectors Guild for $8,995.00 USD and this is a EM/NCO'S M43 FIELD BLOUSE (Feldbluse M43) Waffen-SS Tunic.
    And this tunic's inside lining is identical to the one I bought from a big collector in Germany! Which then begs the question....

    If this one of mine is not right and a fake.. then why would this one on The Collectors Guild have been passed and authenticated as a 100% original selling for top dollar?!

    And here is the pictures of this very tunic to compare to my tunic.
    Website: The Collector's Guild

    Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #6

    Default

    I forgot to mention...
    This tunic as above, that is on the "The Collectors Guild" for sale.. is also made by the manufacturer that bares the "SS BW" Stamp, same as my M43 SS Tunic. So I do not believe that all the tunics made and stamped by SS BW was all exactly the same but different variations, in different time periods of production.

    And we all need to always remember that during WWII in Germany, the factories were run by criminals, POW's, civilians, woman and guess just a mix and match, guess it depends on the factory and period during the War.. so allot of stuff were made poorly, or just not stamped, sometimes they need whatever they had, whatever they could produce, mixed and matched allot of stuff and my best and one example of this just to get an idea in short words..

    My uncle's father fought the Afrika Korps in Tobruk, El Alamein and fought with the Desert Rats and he brought back a WWII Paratrooper Badge he took of the tunic of a dead FJ Paratrooper of one of the Ju-52 planes he shot down with a Bofors Flak gun when he was still a Flak gunner before becoming a Special forces night raider on German Airfields and running with the Desert Rats.. he shot down seven German Aircraft in North Africa! He also brought back a DAK belt and buckle that I also have.. and a Waffen-SS Single Decal helmet he brought back from Italy that I also own.. and one of the the second helmets he brought back along with a bunch of other stuff that is part of my dad's museum is another DAK helmet that he took off a German soldier.

    When he was captured in Tobruk, the man that captured him was a German soldier carrying his MP40 and in the action, my uncle's father.. uncle Okkard I used to call him.. got caught alone in the dunes, and this German soldier appeared on the op of a dune and walked down to him and they ended up talking and had a cigarette together, when he surrendered to the DAK soldier and captured..

    This DAK soldier became friends with him! And he took care of him in the POW's camps and at night he would walk up to the fence and slide chocolate bars, bread and all sorts of goodies, even wine to uncle Okkard and during the liberation of Tobruk, this DAK soldier got killed in action and Okkard was very angry and sad that he didn't get away and he buried him on the dune where they met and he took his helmet and his belt to off him and he wore that belt himself to remember him and in hi pocket was the Golden Paratrooper badge that I've got, that he thought he had kept for him and he took that back too and he also took his medals, badges, awards, all the smalls and his dogtags.. and even this soldier's Flak Badge was an actual field made badge by hand, cast out of bronze.. amazing item to see that is in a frame in the museum collection.

    The helmet that is in my dad's collection along with all the other 20 or so DAK helmets in the one and only helmet in our entire collection that does NOT have a single stamp inside anywhere! So no one on this earth can tell me that, that helmet is wrong or a fake of some sort.. only the textbook collectors will say that! But like everything else in life, there are always flaws and this helmet was one of the few that just got passed along the line during production that just never got it's stamps or went through the process of getting it's stamps! And I've seen many incredible WWII items being shot down so quickly over my life because they are missing something.. doesn't make them unoriginal, just makes them incomplete that's all.

    Although I myself feel safer selecting things that are textbook and right but I do favor field made WWII German memorabilia twice as much as factory made items because they were made by the soldiers themselves, or tailored by order of the man who asked to have his time made like a tunic or a cap.. anything really.

    Anyways.. the only item on the one tunic I am unhappy about and totally unsure about is the sleeve eagle.. I'm guessing it may have been stitched on where the original used to be after it was de-natzified, unless it is an original BeVo Eagle.. like I said, I'm still a rookie at these specific uniforms from pictures.

  8. #7

    Default

    Im curious why you brought them here if you are satisfied with the reports you received from your outside sources.

    You did ask for help regarding if they were authentic or fake and contradicted one of the forums seasoned collectors. Little confused by what your asking and the denial you answered back with.

    Please clarify !

    Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  9. #8

    Default

    I also moved your thread into the SS uniform forum. it does not belong with the cap insignias. I included a 2 day thread redirect from the original post location.

    Regards Larry

    I wish you the best with the poll you included with your thread
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  10. #9

    Default

    Quote by Leopardesigns View Post

    I personally with all my 36 hours of research so far in books and internet research and photographs.. think that these tunics are unmistakable originals in mint condition but.. I am suspicious about the one Tunic's sleeve BeVo Eagle patch, would have to see what the other one looks like still! .. so far it looks like a very nicely made BeVo Cuff Title but the letter "Z" is different from the few I've seen on the internet and a few other letter as in slight different shapes that the few I've seen but that doesn't mean it's a fake.

    So far two major sites with top professionals said that it all looks very good ..
    Well , I must admit that it will be very hard to argue with someone that has spent as much as 36 hours of research on this .

    But the insignia , including the CT , are indeed poor entry level fakes .

  11. #10

    Default

    Mmmm..... 'top professionals' .....!!
    " When you're chewing on life's gristle, don't grumble, give a whistle "

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