Black Luftwaffe Helmet?

[Josey]

Here is a question I've had since this helmet was given to me 2 years ago. Did any units in the German Air Force paint thier helmets black? I received this helmet from a friend of mine whose father brought it back with him after the war. My friend says she always remembers it being black. Whoever painted it also touched up the decal on the right side of the helmet with paint as well.

Thank you.

Josey
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[qotd]

Could be a post war repaint, the colours of the national sheild are wrong...

[helmet2id]

This one does look like it was repainted post war, but there are black luft and heer helmets, repainted to be used by Flak gun crews. The colors of the tri color are interesting. I worked with a guy in the early 70's, and I was collecting, but not really in earnest. One day I mentioned that I had a number of WWII German helmets and he pulled a MINT DD Luft from his father's closet. It had 100% Luft blue paint, a 100% second pattern bird, and a 100% tri color on which the top swath was GREEN instead of black. I tried for 20 years to buy it but his father wouldn't let it go. They moved to Hawaii in the 90's. Unfortunately, I have long since lost contact with my buddy, and probably will never see the helmet again. There is no doubt in my mind that the helmet I saw was 1000% original. Jim G.

[colt45]

new decal - & paint?

[Rommel1942]

Im guessing that this was post war painted to the veterans preferance..

[Walkwolf]

I'm guessing that this was post war painted to the veterans preference..

Looks like this is what has happened to this helmet.
The rivets are loose - the liner was taken out before painting.

[Auseklis]

This one does look like it was repainted post war, but there are black luft and heer helmets, repainted to be used by Flak gun crews. The colors of the tri color are interesting. I worked with a guy in the early 70's, and I was collecting, but not really in earnest. One day I mentioned that I had a number of WWII German helmets and he pulled a MINT DD Luft from his father's closet. It had 100% Luft blue paint, a 100% second pattern bird, and a 100% tri color on which the top swath was GREEN instead of black. I tried for 20 years to buy it but his father wouldn't let it go. They moved to Hawaii in the 90's. Unfortunately, I have long since lost contact with my buddy, and probably will never see the helmet again. There is no doubt in my mind that the helmet I saw was 1000% original. Jim G.

Considering this, I want to point on the fact that, after the italian change of sides, a "italian Flak in Germany" with several thousand italian volunteers was raised*. They were used as regular static flak units, in the Ruhr area and else. I've never seen one of their helmets, but what Jim describes above sound like one of these. If the decals of the black one are OK (are they?), I wouldn't rule out the possibility...

*
See:
"Die Italienischen Militärinternierten Im Deutschen Machtbereich 1943-1945" bei Gerhard Schreiber, Page 401

[helmet2id]

Considering this, I want to point on the fact that, after the italian change of sides, a "italian Flak in Germany" with several thousand italian volunteers was raised*. They were used as regular static flak units, in the Ruhr area and else. I've never seen one of their helmets, but what Jim describes above sound like one of these. If the decals of the black one are OK (are they?), I wouldn't rule out the possibility...

*
See:
"Die Italienischen Militärinternierten Im Deutschen Machtbereich 1943-1945" bei Gerhard Schreiber, Page 401

The one that I mentioned was an M35. I do not remember it clearly enough to say if it had been refitted or not, but it was pristine, and still in the possession of the vet who brought it back, untouched since the War.
The Bird on this one is right, but with the post war touch up on the tri color side, to me it is impossible to say if the original decal had the green swath, but that begs the question of why the person who touched it up chose green. JIm G.

[Auseklis]

but that begs the question of why the person who touched it up chose green. JIm G.

Just to be sure: You are aware that this is an italian Decal for volunteers of Wehrmacht and SS?

Good question, I would expect a forger would have patched up an italian Gladiator helmet to double decal Waffen-SS standart*.

Btw.: I just found a number of 50000 italian Flak soldiers in the Luftwaffe!**

* See example:
Littlejohn: Foreign Legions of the Third Reich Vol.2, page 243

**
See:
Osprey - Man at Arms - 147 - Foreign Volunteers of the Wehrmacht 1941-45, page 8.

[helmet2id]

[QUOTE=Auseklis;186333]Just to be sure: You are aware that this is an italian Decal for volunteers of Wehrmacht and SS?

Good question, I would expect a forger would have patched up an italian Gladiator helmet to double decal Waffen-SS standart*.

Btw.: I just found a number of 50000 italian Flak soldiers in the Luftwaffe!**

* See example:
Littlejohn: Foreign Legions of the Third Reich Vol.2, page 243


Hi, All that I meant by that comment was that there would be no reason for someone to use green unless the original insignia was green as well. This one and the one that I saw 30 years ago are both M35's. Since the one that I saw years ago was untouched, I am convinced the double decal M35 Luft's adorned with tri colors with the Italian colors scheme existed, and maybe this helmet is one of those. I just can't tell from the photos. Cheers, Jim G.
PS To what Italian Gladiator are you referring? I am a little confused, although my wife always tells me that that is my normal condition.