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Bulgarian M36c Org Todt

Article about: Hi Guys, I would just like a few opinions on this helmet. It was purchased from Germany (former east I think) about 10 years ago via, wait for it, E-Bay. The guy that was selling it was sell

  1. #21

    Default Re: Bulgarian M36c Org Todt

    Quote by BOPHEAD View Post
    It seems fakes are everywhere !
    Do the Museums know they are displaying fakes and where do they get their fakes from. Could they get them from E-Bay !
    Many museums display high-quality fakes in the place of more expensive originals. I imagine that many fakes are also used as placeholders in lower-end museums.

    Of course, I am sure that there are plenty of museums that have bought, displayed, and sold fake items that they either thought, or pretended were, original.

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  3. #22
    ?

    Default Re: Bulgarian M36c Org Todt

    Sorry Frank I stand corrected, RAD helmets you have 2 of yes. I am working too many hours....(bang head here LOL)

    Either way the Ord Todt decal does not follow proper print characteristics and I reviewed your ADM of that decal and no question its a fake print, as I believe these are 99% all Org Todt are. Never seen one in photos either.

  4. #23
    ?

    Default Re: Bulgarian M36c Org Todt

    Quote by ObKrieger View Post
    Many museums display high-quality fakes in the place of more expensive originals. I imagine that many fakes are also used as placeholders in lower-end museums.

    Of course, I am sure that there are plenty of museums that have bought, displayed, and sold fake items that they either thought, or pretended were, original.
    A lot of museums use items to represent the real ones, not to be the real ones. That is an important distinction. The Canadian War Museum, most if not all of their SS and FJ items are fake. Ive been to both those museums Frank and so many across Western Europe, all filled with fakes many very high end fakes. I was at a museum in Calais and a guy was in the gift shop looking at an M42 SS being sold as real, I asked if I could look at it and shook my head NO at the guy, it was several thousand Euro!!! This is in a "museum"!

  5. #24
    ?

    Default Re: Bulgarian M36c Org Todt

    Quote by MySonsDad View Post
    I know NOTHING about the rarity of these decals or helmets and even less on the obvious fakes that are out there but I wanted to share what I think is wrong and maybe the experts here could chime in and let me know what is a good observation and what is bad. This might help all us newer collectors in detecting fakes, call it a quick lesson for us less experienced guys!

    Here is what I see wrong, had I stumbled upon this helmet in a store and wanted to give it purchase consideration:

    First, looking at the decal only I think I see where chips in the helmet paint are covered by the decal in a couple of spots (mostly in the upper right area, the large paint chip). I guess this can happen if the decal is applied to an already chipped up helmet, but it scares me away. Second, I see a number of very close and straight scratch marks (most at the upper left of the decal) that do not appear on the shell paint away from the decal. And last, where the decal appears to be worn, the color seems to be awfully white in contrast to the white lettering and Swas. Not knowing much or having experience in identifying fakes, this alone would scare me away from even a low cost common helmet.

    Are any of these observations valid? Iím taking notes!

    Thanks, Russ
    Hi Russ all of your observations are spot on!

  6. #25

    Default Re: Bulgarian M36c Org Todt

    I knid made these observation my-self by enlage. I had no Idea as to the rarity / questionable existence of Org Todt decals.
    Just one point on the fake decal (possably the only thing that made me doubt its fake origins) is the backing / lettering is not white as in the fakes available. the lettering is Gold not Gold ink / paint but a gold foil. I have never seen this on a fake decal before.

    Cheers Chaps.

  7. #26
    ?

    Default Re: Bulgarian M36c Org Todt

    Fake KMs use a gold foil. Ive even seen them fake the champagne color of a certain SS decal.

  8. #27

    Default Re: Bulgarian M36c Org Todt

    apology's for making a late comment on this M/36 Bulgarian helmet
    Bulgaria's entry in the helmet Manufacturing / production
    started in late 1936
    Machinery was sent from Germany with instructions and manufacturing Molding equipment
    as there were no documented Org Todt units in bulgaria
    your M/36 Todt Bulgarian decal is a Facsimile/Copy/fake
    the paint color is Wrong! Apfel Gruen/Dak paint was never Used
    the Bulgarians developed their own helmet paint Colour
    as ordered by King Boris the 3rd and the Bulgarian Military high Command.
    the paint was lighter then the paint used on the M/35 German Stahlhelm. (Bulgarian Green)
    the German High Command authorized that the German M/35 Helmet Design was not to be used,
    and the Manufacturing Dies were created to form a ridge on the top of the Bulgarian M36 Helmet and with a different Conical type of Vent hole placement.
    the liner is almost the same type of liner as the German M/16 and M/17 series of Helmets using a Steel inner band with perforations
    to sew the leather liner onto.( M/31 German Helmet Liners will not interchange with the Bulgarian
    M/36 Helmet.)
    the chinstrap is a copy of the 1934 German Fire brigade/luftschutz helmet.
    the leather helmet chinstrap is of lower quality.with a roller type buckle
    I Hope this information helps in your research. This information is from the United States Library of Congress.
    Bulgarian Textiles,War time Steel manufacturing processes/field equipment
    Molding/Machining Processes used 1926-1945
    the M/36 Series of Military Helmets were declared Obsolete and ordered scrapped as of 11/21/10
    the Bulgarian Government still has tens of thousands of these helmets which are being sold off
    to scrap yards and ordered Melted.
    Last edited by seitengewehr; 01-17-2012 at 01:47 AM.

  9. #28

    Default Re: Bulgarian M36c Org Todt

    Verify the paint with the archival records of the war time bulgarian military
    textiles and fabrics section at the library of congress washington d.c
    and the united states army museum.
    And todt never set up any organization in bulgaria there are no known war time records!

    The m-36 series of helmets were manufactured on german Made equipment and tooling that was ordered and sold .then was sent by rail to bulgaria in 1936-1937 .the king of bulgaria wanted to replicate the m 35 helmet and the german steel manufacturing facilities turned him down and said no!
    The decal insignia is questionable. ONLY GERMANY MANUFACTURED THE STAHLHEM 1916-1945 IF IT IS NOT LOT OR BATCH NUMBERED
    WITH THE GERMAN MILITARY MANUFACTURERS CODE IT AIN'T REAL!

    It is a close copy of general franciso franco's of Spains 1932-34 Military helmet!

    LOOK AT THE AIR VENTS AND THE POOR WORKMANSHIP ON THE LINER AND LINER RING ASSEMBLY!
    Last edited by seitengewehr; 12-07-2012 at 02:04 AM. Reason: mistakes

  10. #29
    M38
    M38 is offline
    ?

    Default Re: Bulgarian M36c Org Todt

    I am familiar with the Goodapple-Maertz-Weinand books and I no longer believe the OT helmets pictured therein to be real. At the time, they were the only examples available and were thought to be genuine. In fact, over time, I have come to the conclusion that an Org Todt decal never existed for helmets.

    Cheers,
    Terry

  11. #30
    ?

    Default Re: Bulgarian M36c Org Todt

    Thanks for your observations Terry, I take it your familiarity may be more than just observation, anything to do with the book itself ???

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