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Bulgarian M36c Org Todt

Article about: Hi Guys, I would just like a few opinions on this helmet. It was purchased from Germany (former east I think) about 10 years ago via, wait for it, E-Bay. The guy that was selling it was sell

  1. #1

    Default Bulgarian M36c Org Todt

    Hi Guys,
    I would just like a few opinions on this helmet.

    It was purchased from Germany (former east I think) about 10 years ago via, wait for it, E-Bay. The guy that was selling it was selling many bits of antiques etc but no other militaria.

    THE DECAL
    Now, at the time I looked at every example of an Org Todt decal I could find. The one on the helmet matched none of the repro decals I could find on the market. The only decals thet I have matched it with have been the 'belived original' ones. I can say without doubt that the decal on this helmet is identical to the one pictured in the book Germany's Combat Helmets by R James Bender. It is also Graphically identical to the three examples on this forum that are belived genuine. I have also compaired the actual decal material to genuine Heer decals and it looks the same (unlike some of the repros).
    The decal its-self appears to be gold metalic overprinted with black so as the black wears off the gold foil beneath wears through.

    THE HELMET
    As mentioned its a M36c Raw Edge. Crusty WW2 liner, Interior finish in WW2 Bulgarian green. The outer has been refinished in what I would describe as dark yellow with a hint of green. Has anyone seen this colour used before ?
    Any comments / further questions would be appreciated.
    Chris.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #2

    Default Re: Bulgarian M36c Org Todt

    I can only comment on the condition, and that seems artificially aged to me
    |<
    Always looking for Belgian Congo stuff!
    cheers
    |<ris

  4. #3

    Default Re: Bulgarian M36c Org Todt

    Fake

  5. #4

    Default Re: Bulgarian M36c Org Todt

    Hi, I know what you mean regarding the broadness and frequency of the sctatches to the paint surface. However, Such broad scratches and paint loss are consistent with a paint finish that has not keyed to the surface as well as that of a 'manufactured' combat helmet. What I am suggesting is, where these hemets recycled and painted with whatever available paint was arround ? If this is so, then the paint adherence to the shell could vary unlike a controlled prodction line of combat helmets ?

  6. #5

    Default Re: Bulgarian M36c Org Todt

    Complete junk and absolute crap.

  7. #6

    Default Re: Bulgarian M36c Org Todt

    Thanks for the remark,
    What I was looking for was a little more info into how / why you think it is fake. What tells you a helmet is fake ? Is the give-away the decal ? If so why ? Is it the paint ? If so why ?
    I one word answer teaches me nothing.

  8. #7

    Default Re: Bulgarian M36c Org Todt

    Quote by BOPHEAD View Post
    Thanks for the remark,
    What I was looking for was a little more info into how / why you think it is fake. What tells you a helmet is fake ? Is the give-away the decal ? If so why ? Is it the paint ? If so why ?
    I one word answer teaches me nothing.
    I apologize, I used to get annoyed at short answers too so I understand.

    Where do I begin? The decal is a fake, the shell/decal combo is just weird, and it looks like it was artificially aged.

    Now, I could be wrong, but this would not be a helmet for me.

  9. #8
    ?

    Default Re: Bulgarian M36c Org Todt

    Quote by BOPHEAD View Post
    Thanks for the remark,
    What I was looking for was a little more info into how / why you think it is fake. What tells you a helmet is fake ? Is the give-away the decal ? If so why ? Is it the paint ? If so why ?
    I one word answer teaches me nothing.
    Its difficult to get into a complete analysis on every helmet asked for, part of the learning process is looking at known originals and handling them. Buying an Org Todt helmet is waaaaay out there for a non helmet collector, like on the Moon way out there. For one on a camo, is on Mars way out there, on a Bulgarian shell, is on out of the solar system out there. In other words, your looking at something that is highly faked, never seen in original condition (an Org Todt camo), and without long hard won experience even a complete answer on a forum wont do much to educate you I am afraid.

    So, fake decal, fake paint, fake aging, on a shell designed to rake in a few bucks on a hopeful collector, not an experienced one.

    Best to start off with a single decal M40 or M42 Heer or LW to get the feel of them and work your way into it.

    All of the above is said looking at your post count, questions, and assuming you are a beginner collector of German helmets and said with respect so that you can learn.

    Cheers
    Doug

  10. #9

    Default Re: Bulgarian M36c Org Todt

    Cheers Doug,
    I took a punt on this but not (as I mention) without some decal research. I do (and have had in the past) had many Axis helmets in my collection. I have very little experience of Org Todt helmets. When I bought it, I thought it would be similar in pricing / collectorbillity as say a Luftshults. An original being worth 100 with the wind behind you.
    What I cant understand is why someone would fake a Bulgarian M36 as an Org Todt ? If you wanted to fool a collector (and get big money) than why not an original m42 shell ? and why not with SS runes ?
    I paid 36.00 all in. At that price I thought it would be a fun gamble. They sometimes pay-off.
    Still think the decal is very very good. As mentioned, Graphically / constuction / material correct, unlike the repros I have seen.
    Would be interesting to get more of your angle ob what you think is wrong with the decal. I have seen many fakes and this does not look like the fakes I have seen.

    Chris

  11. #10
    ?

    Default Re: Bulgarian M36c Org Todt

    Hi Chris,

    I am by no means an expert on Org Todt decals but I disagree with the construction angle, it looks like the repro decals I have studied in hand and under magnification and lacks the construction characteristics of a real one. Further, Schwerpunkt I believe owns several Org Todt helmets and he hauled off with "Fake" right away, I trust his judgement on these decals and if I were buying one he would be the one I would turn to for a decal opinion before laying down the cash.

    Insofar as playing helmet detective, the decal is on top of the paint. The paint is clearly aged by artificial means and the decal abraded in a similar fashion. Fake aging on the paint = fake decal on the paint. The experience and study of camo wear patterns is critical to understanding this helmet and how it screams fake. Also the price also gives this one away, it would be worth considerably more if real, probably in the $1000 to $1500 range I would guess. Who would want to fool a collector with one of these? Well they fake tunic buttons so why not turn a completely worthless Bulgarian shell into something one can get $50 bucks for but was probably aiming for $500 I bet when it was made.

    Not every fake helmet is an SS M42 ;-)

    Cheers, just my opinion and for 50 bucks it is what it is, not a lot of money at stake here.

    Doug

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