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einzatssteffel steelhelmet

Article about: hi there , i am new here and i wonder if someone knows more about the diffirence in croatian helmets worn by the volksdeutshe gemeinschaft . i ad some foto's of my helmet . grtz Frw L F

  1. #11

    Default Re: einzatssteffel steelhelmet

    Usually helmets can be identified as genuine or fake on the internet by close ups of the decals, liner pins etc as you have provided. I'm by no means an expert on helmets but the liner of this helmet doesnt convince me as it looks to have been aged artifically. Also you have to take into consideration the judgement that has been passed by Ade, who I see as an expert worth learning from. Looking at this helmet then the one he posted some time back, I have to agree with him about this helmet in fact being a fake. Sorry Also, just because you seen a period photograph of one being used that confirms that they were real however it doesnt mean that this isnt a fake.

    Thanks

    Danny

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  3. #12

    Default Re: einzatssteffel steelhelmet

    Gentlemen, odd one this....it does indeed look like a Model 1917 helmet, the term ''M17'' refered to the metal liner band, the M17 being a M16 helmet shell with a metal banded liner, both M16 and M17 were fitted with M91 chinstrap posts, only Austro-Hungarian helmets had a swivel bale type chinstrap mounted higher up the skirt than on the German made helmets. Some how the M91 posts have been fitted in the Austrian position for some reason.....the helmet does show signs of being at a field repair depot, the ''66'' stencilled on rear skirt is often evidence of just that, a facility were the helmet would, usually be repainted, either by hand or spray, and fitted with a new liner, because the original mm was obscured by new paint the size was applied to the rear skirt by using a stencil. It is possible this is where the helmet got the unusual positioned chinstrap posts, it could even be a refurbed Austrian to German spec, as often these ''repaired'' helmets were after the battle pickups,by salvage squads. frw legion flandern, your helmet will be marked on the skirt with a makers mark and size, if so, what is it ?...it will help to determine nationality. As to its now ''Authenticity'' I cannot help, Third Reich objects are not my bag.
    "The German Army is the perfectly adapted, perfectly running Machine. The difference is that the Germans are organised with a view to War...with the cold, hard, practical and business-like purpose of winning victories."
    G.W. Steevens - The Daily Mail (1897)

  4. #13
    ?

    Default Re: einzatssteffel steelhelmet

    Quote by frw legion flandern View Post
    Hi this is helmet comes direktly from Croatia and served his time in Prinz Eugen . When you could have this helmet in your hands you woudn't be disappointed . Its a salty helmet believe me .
    Bearing in mind that Prinz Eugen was raised in 1942 i can't see why a member of the Divison would be wearing such a Double decal helmet , plus the runic decal is all over the place style and dimension wise
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  5. #14
    ?

    Default Re: einzatssteffel steelhelmet

    Quote by frw legion flandern View Post
    Hi again , i know how difficult it is to judge an item on the net , but if you would and could excamen the decals with a small magnifier than you know its a good one . The helmet is never been taken apart. BTW I seen a picture with a soldier wearing the same model M17 helmet on a parade , they were used . Maybe this is so rare and in such mint state that people out here could not believe it still excist .
    Grtz
    When did you buy this helmet?

    Also a magnifier doesnt tell you if an item is period unless you know what you are looking for, ie - comparing to a fake and to a baseline of other real ones.

    For example the photo below is taken of an EF SS decal at 400x magnification. Is it real or fake? If you havent looked at other real ones and fake ones you have no basis from which to make a comparison.

  6. #15
    frw legion flandern
    ?

    Default Re: einzatssteffel steelhelmet

    Quote by oradour View Post
    Gentlemen, odd one this....it does indeed look like a Model 1917 helmet, the term ''M17'' refered to the metal liner band, the M17 being a M16 helmet shell with a metal banded liner, both M16 and M17 were fitted with M91 chinstrap posts, only Austro-Hungarian helmets had a swivel bale type chinstrap mounted higher up the skirt than on the German made helmets. Some how the M91 posts have been fitted in the Austrian position for some reason.....the helmet does show signs of being at a field repair depot, the ''66'' stencilled on rear skirt is often evidence of just that, a facility were the helmet would, usually be repainted, either by hand or spray, and fitted with a new liner, because the original mm was obscured by new paint the size was applied to the rear skirt by using a stencil. It is possible this is where the helmet got the unusual positioned chinstrap posts, it could even be a refurbed Austrian to German spec, as often these ''repaired'' helmets were after the battle pickups,by salvage squads. frw legion flandern, your helmet will be marked on the skirt with a makers mark and size, if so, what is it ?...it will help to determine nationality. As to its now ''Authenticity'' I cannot help, Third Reich objects are not my bag.
    Hi there , and thanks for the information . I must say i think the story goes in line what you are saying . I don't find for the moment a marking because i could be i refurbed . The helmet is salty and i will make some detailled pictures in the coming days from the decals . So it will make some more discussions around it
    Grtz.

  7. #16

    Default Re: einzatssteffel steelhelmet

    Quote by frw legion flandern View Post
    Hi this is helmet comes direktly from Croatia and served his time in Prinz Eugen . When you could have this helmet in your hands you woudn't be disappointed . Its a salty helmet believe me .
    And what is your source there , a dealer or a local ?

    I have to say I'm very suspicious about the whole helmet. I'd also like to take a better look at the liner and the white paint.
    The base paint itself also doesn't seem like a color I have come across and that's not a good sign.

    Upload some good close-ups and larger photos as the ones posted are really small.

  8. #17

    Default Re: einzatssteffel steelhelmet

    I know plenty about the ES and about 7th SS Prinz Eugen. Yes the ES was folded into Prinz Eugen but that is why there are few or no ES helmets left! They would have gladly and quickly put on their SS decals, no?

    I would believe this more if the decals were found under paint, or for God's knows why someone found out it was under an SS decal. But because people do not tamper with known original SS helmets, I'm sure there are ES helmets people own and DO NOT know are ES.

    I'm no helmet expert but this looks all wrong to me. Furthermore the Croatian Coat-of-Arms was never black outlined within the Coat of Arms, only on the outside. Also, these "genuine" ES helmets starting popping up when these "aged" decals came up on Ebay last year.

    Pre-aged WW II German helmet decal - Croatian volunteer - eBay (item 320471010551 end time Jul-04-10 05:58:14 PDT)

    Pre-aged WW II German helmet decal - Croatian volunteer - eBay (item 320471010811 end time Jul-04-10 05:58:59 PDT)

    -Martin

  9. #18
    frw legion flandern
    ?

    Default Re: einzatsstaffel steelhelmet

    Hi there again everybody
    i made some pictures and hope this time they will be good . The pictures were taken outside . I know that these decals are not stickers from ebay , believe me !
    I think the helmet is ( LIKE MODERATOR ORADOUR WROTE ) a depot refurbisch . This helmet was 40 years in a collection in austria . More do i not know about it . Please look at the pictures .
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  10. #19
    frw legion flandern
    ?

    Default Re: einzatsstaffel steelhelmet

    Quote by frw legion flandern View Post
    Hi there again everybody
    i made some pictures and hope this time they will be good . The pictures were taken outside . I know that these decals are not stickers from ebay , believe me !
    I think the helmet is ( LIKE MODERATOR ORADOUR WROTE ) a depot refurbisch . This helmet was 40 years in a collection in austria . More do i not know about it . Please look at the pictures .
    Strange, that when i made new pictures , there is nobody who says something about this very RRRRARE en SCARCE helmet .
    I know what i have in my collection and its good ,you only have to have them in your hands to believe it. I have 2 EINSATZSTAFFEL STEELHELMET ( M 17 ) and 1 HANDSCHAR WAFFEN SS M40 IN MY COLLECTION all in very good condition .
    Grtz Frw legion flandern

  11. #20

    Default Re: einzatsstaffel steelhelmet

    Quote by frw legion flandern View Post
    Strange, that when i made new pictures , there is nobody who says something about this very RRRRARE en SCARCE helmet .
    I know what i have in my collection and its good ,you only have to have them in your hands to believe it. I have 2 EINSATZSTAFFEL STEELHELMET ( M 17 ) and 1 HANDSCHAR WAFFEN SS M40 IN MY COLLECTION all in very good condition .
    Grtz Frw legion flandern
    Just give it time, I'm sure that sometime soon one of the true experts will pass their judgement on this piece

    Thanks

    Danny

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