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German Waffen SS police division

Article about: Hi Guys Thinking of bidding on this helmet and would be very grateful to receive your expert views on authenticity.The auction house info says it is marked Q64 and DN182 with”unusual overpai

  1. #11

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    David, I can see you live in the UK, I'll PM you my list of sites I have gathered together - it may help you track down another example.
    Nick

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    Circuit advertisement German Waffen SS  police division
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  3. #12

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    Hi, as the fella's have stated, poorly over painted National shield and Adler. Incorrect liner as well, nothing worth bidding for on this one. Leon.
    "Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut." Ernest Hemingway

  4. #13

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    Hi, i am new here and have been looking at threads to try and increase my knowledge on helmets before i take the plunge to buy, similar to Tyleriboy and from the UK and i stumbled on this one. I have looked firstly at the fake section and fakes in general and its clear these are obvious fake decals on this sites thread. Although they would have seen combat duty in some shape or form.
    However on this helmet it states 9 tongues is incorrect but does not go further to state then which helmet would include this type of interior, bar probably from a fire helmet but not definitely? Also and i may be wrong but in WW1 in was not unusual for logos/motifs to be painted on the sides of helmets, therefore it would not be unusual for it to be painted/touched in on a WW2 helmet? I also saw on one site i looked at from a specialist in helmets who also stated that some helmets have transfers/painted over original decals. There were shortages of helmets at various times in the war and as another i saw and read about a lot of these were reissued and decals applied to coincide with their job description in which case a decal would be applied over for speed. I may be wrong on this one but if a helmet was to be faked of course taking into account certain factors helmet stamps etc but wouldn't they choose a helmet that was not decaled and then apply to these. The only fakes i have seen seem to be 1/2 decal not overlays. It would be strange and unusual for someone to take a helmet like this to have a garage fully of spares which i would have, that they would touch up, paint instead of applying a decal and then right at the end leave the old headling in that does not relate? I am also sure that as war would sometimes have quiet periods and i have read that soldiers would personally touch up helmets paint them green with a paint brush and do other things. But the most intriguing thing on this helmet was that logo had been overlayed, probably touched up by the soldier or provider and then reissued for a soldier in the SS Waffen, whether the interior is correct or not you have to use what you have to hand, recycle and what is quickly available. The eagle being touched up very slightly personally does not mean much as the the rest i would say is totally original. But what other helmets would have this sign which i believe is the police sign and therefore what are the possibilities of what had been overlayed? Or was this original now overplayed decal, overlaid with the present swastika, the eagle applied then issued to the SS Waffen and then due to usage then touched up, which i would not discount. I have also seen write ups whereby some experts have stated helmets to be original and then they are fake and ones they have said are fake that have turned out to be original, so i am curious how you actually know, bar the obvious? I have also been looking at manufacturer stamps the first part on a helmet is the area/factory and i believe the following numbers were batch numbers? Any sites for helmets would also be much appreciated. Thanks

  5. #14

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    Quote by steve666 View Post
    Hi, i am new here and have been looking at threads to try and increase my knowledge on helmets before i take the plunge to buy, similar to Tyleriboy and from the UK and i stumbled on this one. I have looked firstly at the fake section and fakes in general and its clear these are obvious fake decals on this sites thread. Although they would have seen combat duty in some shape or form.
    However on this helmet it states 9 tongues is incorrect but does not go further to state then which helmet would include this type of interior, bar probably from a fire helmet but not definitely? Also and i may be wrong but in WW1 in was not unusual for logos/motifs to be painted on the sides of helmets, therefore it would not be unusual for it to be painted/touched in on a WW2 helmet? I also saw on one site i looked at from a specialist in helmets who also stated that some helmets have transfers/painted over original decals. There were shortages of helmets at various times in the war and as another i saw and read about a lot of these were reissued and decals applied to coincide with their job description in which case a decal would be applied over for speed. I may be wrong on this one but if a helmet was to be faked of course taking into account certain factors helmet stamps etc but wouldn't they choose a helmet that was not decaled and then apply to these. The only fakes i have seen seem to be 1/2 decal not overlays. It would be strange and unusual for someone to take a helmet like this to have a garage fully of spares which i would have, that they would touch up, paint instead of applying a decal and then right at the end leave the old headling in that does not relate? I am also sure that as war would sometimes have quiet periods and i have read that soldiers would personally touch up helmets paint them green with a paint brush and do other things. But the most intriguing thing on this helmet was that logo had been overlayed, probably touched up by the soldier or provider and then reissued for a soldier in the SS Waffen, whether the interior is correct or not you have to use what you have to hand, recycle and what is quickly available. The eagle being touched up very slightly personally does not mean much as the the rest i would say is totally original. But what other helmets would have this sign which i believe is the police sign and therefore what are the possibilities of what had been overlayed? Or was this original now overplayed decal, overlaid with the present swastika, the eagle applied then issued to the SS Waffen and then due to usage then touched up, which i would not discount. I have also seen write ups whereby some experts have stated helmets to be original and then they are fake and ones they have said are fake that have turned out to be original, so i am curious how you actually know, bar the obvious? I have also been looking at manufacturer stamps the first part on a helmet is the area/factory and i believe the following numbers were batch numbers? Any sites for helmets would also be much appreciated. Thanks
    I can’t even count the number of questions here. I think it is best to go in slow buy one original helmet with assistance from the members here and build up from that. Knowledge is not learned in a couple of days. Also collectors tend to look at the whole , a touched up decal is less interesting and impossible to say when it is done. Plenty of untouched helmets out there.
    Have fun it is a fantastic hobby but be smart and avoid the pit traps. Auction sites are the worst places to buy that first helmet.

  6. #15

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    Welcome to the forum .

    The answers to most of your questions are amply provided in open source and throughout many threads here but for sure painted or touched up decals on WWII TR helmets are generally (with very very few exceptions) a really bad sign.

    As for the manufacture marks on TR helmets the first two digits such as ET, etc are for the maker whilst the two numbers eg 64 etc are the shell size. The batch or lot number will be separate and found at the rear of the shell.

    As for recycling the situation was never quite as one might see it today and homemade chinstraps etc did not occur in accepted form.

    Regards

    Mark
    Last edited by Watchdog; 07-12-2018 at 10:18 PM. Reason: typo
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

  7. #16

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    Thanks I will read up more, check old threads and go slowly from there.

  8. #17

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    Quote by real steel View Post
    the liner is not correct for two reasons I can see. The forehead area of the leather looks "perforated" & there are 9 tongues. Neither feature belong in a QM40 size 64 police helmet.
    A third anomaly is the rear liner seam - it appears to be folded/ overlapped ( which post war ones were ) not stitched as it should be......
    " When you're chewing on life's gristle, don't grumble, give a whistle "

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