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How about those east European ebay sellers with "dug up" helmets?

Article about: While I certainly do enjoy the ornate and quality condition specimens, something also attracts me about the beat to hell battle and time worn helmets. There are a handful of sellers who seem

  1. #1

    Default How about those east European ebay sellers with "dug up" helmets?

    While I certainly do enjoy the ornate and quality condition specimens, something also attracts me about the beat to hell battle and time worn helmets.

    There are a handful of sellers who seem to have lots of helmets, typically Russian and German helmets, that were dug up in former Soviet battle sites.

    For example:
    WW II German original relic helmet M42 - eBay (item 250734418267 end time Dec-28-10 13:01:41 PST)
    and:
    WW2 GERMAN M-35 HELMET FROM BATTLEFIELD OF KURLAND - eBay (item 330418951624 end time Dec-24-10 19:50:37 PST)

    I'm very green to this hobby still, and I know that forgeries are rampant, especially in places like this, but does anyone know if these types of helmets are legit? Do empty shells get faked all that often?

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  3. #2

    Default Re: How about those east European ebay sellers with "dug up" helmets?

    These may indeed be original 'relic' lids, but where they came from is really unknown.
    Don't buy into a story that they came from 'such and such' a battlefield - they
    might have come from a barn or in a ditch behind a warehouse. Unless there
    is photographic proof, or you were there at the site when discovered,
    no one can say for sure.

    Also, there were many countries that used them post war - Civil/Police/Fire Dept,
    etc. They could be of that ilk, but still originating from WWII Germany.

    I'd look for ones that were more solid and complete, not rusting away.
    But ones with bullet/schrapnel holes are ok too, although I wouldn't
    spend much for these two. The first one looks as though someone
    has purposely put the dings and holes in it some time ago.



    Below, a Quist - size 62 - one of two 'relic' lids I have.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Walkwolf; 12-01-2010 at 03:17 AM.
    Regards,


    Steve.

  4. #3

    Default Re: How about those east European ebay sellers with "dug up" helmets?

    Just to add to what Walkwolf said, be wary of relic helmets with SS decals. Originals of these definately exist, but many fakers will take your basic relic helmet, slap a fake SS decal on the side of it, and then wear the decal down so that you can only see traces. Some fakers don't even bother to do that, so it's really obvious to tell those apart since the wear on the decal doesn't match the rest of the helmet. It's an easy way to add some extra value to a not-so-valuable helmet.

  5. #4

    Default Re: How about those east European ebay sellers with "dug up" helmets?

    im still trying to fathom Original WW2 M40 German Helmet Elite Camo with Wire (eBay item 160510581748 end time 01-Dec-10 19:15:39 AEDST) : Collectables IT doesnt look like ill get a german lid for under $200 dollars.

  6. #5

    Default Re: How about those east European ebay sellers with "dug up" helmets?

    That helmet is a good example of a relic helmet that has been messed with to appear more complete. The wire, liner, writing, and chinstrap are definately fake.

    Unfortunately, it's hard to find cheap German helmets nowadays. I was not around then but I would have loved to peruse through some army navy stores back in the late 40's. I would have bought every German helmet I could get ahold of!

    If you want to find helmets cheap, look through local classified ads every day until something pops up. Post an ad in the wanted section for military collectibles. I almost had a mint Luftwaffe single decal M40 for $100 a couple months ago, but I missed the damned thing by one e-mail.

  7. #6
    ?

    Default Re: How about those east European ebay sellers with "dug up" helmets?

    Come on guys you will have put relic hunter off collecting straight away with these comments !!

    Hundreds of thousands of helmets are still in the ground in eastern europe and Russia and they are being found every day , now they have become collectable they are being of course offered for sale in larger quantities , 25 - 30 years ago even SS and FJ helmets were being thrown away or weighed in for scrap as the diggers were more interested in weopons etc.

    Some people are now attempting to put a fake decals on SS helmets because of the prices but there are many genuine relic SS lids being dug up every day in the Baltic , Karelia and Russia.

    It's the same as buying anything from e bay do some research on what you want to buy , the seller and the selling story if there is one.

    I know the Russianheritage guy from Estonia , hundreds of helmets and other battlefield artifacts are found every year at Narva so no surprise that he advertises them as such., the other guy is he Latvian ??

    Also there is a difference between ground dug relic helmets and the old barn / house / cellar found helmet that is in semi relic condition they tend to be the ones with the really good "stories" with them and a really good price to match , in my expereince they are the ones to examine in closer detail before commiting your money,

    regards

    Paul
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  8. #7

    Default Re: How about those east European ebay sellers with "dug up" helmets?

    I've seen an old photo of a soldier or someone with a pick axe putting holes into a huge stack of German helmets. Was this something that was commonly done after surrender or something? Iím wondering if that might not be what some of the holes are in some of these.

  9. #8
    ?

    Default Re: How about those east European ebay sellers with "dug up" helmets?

    When the allies captured prisoners they confiscated there fighting equipment including helmets whcih were commonly spiked or battered in some way to make them unusable.

    Relic helmets often contain round strikes from either Battle or they were used by troops for target practice if abandoned on the Battlefield plus shrapnel holes from Artillery , Mortars , grenades , rockets etc etc.
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  10. #9

    Default Re: How about those east European ebay sellers with "dug up" helmets?

    Quote by RelicHunter99 View Post
    I've seen an old photo of a soldier or someone with a pick axe putting holes into a huge stack of German helmets. Was this something that was commonly done after surrender or something? Iím wondering if that might not be what some of the holes are in some of these.
    I am pretty sure that the Norwegians did this to many of the helmets that they captured.

  11. #10
    ?

    Default Re: How about those east European ebay sellers with "dug up" helmets?

    Most of it was done when the Allies moved through North west europe and vast numbers of Germans were surrendering , the photo in question is on the forum somewhere and as far as i can recall was in Holland or Belgium.
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

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